Old Radar Detectors are useless against NEW speed cameras (Video Footage)

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1923 posts

Uber Geek

#423702 3-Jan-2011 12:03

I believe both Steve and scuwp are right...

Banning detectors achieves nothing (a bit like banning the use of cellphones whilst driving), whereas if folk choose to spend their spondolacs on one and then speed, they can't argue they haven't made an informed choice. And if their detectors sound off the at least they slow down.
If you're driving safely, and/or within the speed limit why worry about covert or hidden cameras??

But I do believe there needs to be a better system to deter poor (including hi speed/lo speed driving). Demerit points and loss of license are generally ineffective in todays world, but nobody likes paying out money. Simply impound the car, and the driver, till they pony up the fine. Increase the fine for subsequent similar infringements......

Nokia2012

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Master Geek

#423707 3-Jan-2011 12:18

I have an Escort 8500 X50 Blue Display I don't really like being deemed a 'Speeder' I just like to know where they are. 98 percent of the time I stick to the speed limit because speed limits are made for a reason and it costs alot to speed it's just not with it.

When im heading home at night sometimes I travel at 70k in a 100k and just give way to the cars it saves fuel.

Yes and the fact is slow drivers that don't give way do cause crash's.

GeekGuy

590 posts

Ultimate Geek

#423728 3-Jan-2011 13:40

I knew someone years ago in Hastings who use to park the 'van' across the road from my place and wander in for a cuppa :)

raytaylor: Here in hawkes bay, we have 4 of the fixed camera housings, with only one camera that gets moved around every few days,

And a pair of vans - blue or white. Very easy to spot when driving.

They sometimes park the vans outside our house in Napier, and my parents live next door. So whenever mom sees the van, she parks her van up behind it, quickly gets out and walks inside. Then when he realises, he has to move the camera van down the road a bit and re measure out and align the camera again. Quite funny.

savag3

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#423729 3-Jan-2011 13:42

The Govt is about to ban laser jammers etc without much publicity. It will be an offence to "interfere with the operation of a speed measurement device". Still a Bill at this stage but I would expect it will be slipped through as per usual.

mentalinc

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#423734 3-Jan-2011 13:50

I agree the radar detector actually makes me a safer driver.
IF I am speeding with a radar detector and go past a camera I will slow down IMMEDIATELY which means I dont get a ticket, but I also drive slower for a while.

Compare this to a speeder without the radar detector, they drive past the camera get a ticket and they CONTINUE to drive fast which increases the risk to all. They then get a letter 3-4 weeks later telling them that 3-4 weeks ago they were speeding. This means they continue their unsafe behaviour for a few weeks.

In short the radar detector has better effects in slowing down drivers.

Oh and NZ road toll is small, there are far more things that are killing NZers which are being completly ignored or atleast dont get anywhere near the attention speeders get. Dont even get me started on the resources wasted trying to catch drink drivers.

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raytaylor

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#423735 3-Jan-2011 13:50

Problem is you are not interfering with a speed measurement device, you are just detecting random radio signals that happen to be in the radar bands floating through your front windscreen.

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Dratsab

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#423757 3-Jan-2011 16:13

This is somewhat OT, but:

savag3: The Govt is about to ban laser jammers etc without much publicity. It will be an offence to "interfere with the operation of a speed measurement device". Still a Bill at this stage but I would expect it will be slipped through as per usual.

Where did you specifically get "laser jammers" out of that piece of proposed legislation?

raytaylor: Problem is you are not interfering with a speed measurement device, you are just detecting random radio signals that happen to be in the radar bands floating through your front windscreen.

If all the detector does is detect, there's nothing to worry about. The key word in the proposed legislation is "intefere". The prosecuting agency will have to prove specific pieces of equipment cause interference.

sbiddle: The fact no demerit points are issued on speed camera tickets here in NZ shows they are solely for revenue gathering and not a serious attempt to change driver behaviour.

The fact that no demerit points are issued on speed camera tickets revolves around proving who the actual driver was. Yes they have a photo, but it without the access required to check drivers licence photo's, there would be a requirement for some other form of formal identification. This might involve:
- sending a letter requiring the registered to provide the drivers details, or
- sending someone to the registered owners house with a speed camera photo to see if an ID can be made, or
- summonsing the registered owner to Court, etc

The costs involved with such an exercise would be astronomical and far beyond worth. In regards to your postulation about the seriousness of the attempts to change driver behaviour, I think you're wrong. There is a very serious attitude towards change, but there is a singular focus which is far from all-encompassing (ie how many trailer towing vehicles or trucks doing doing over 100kmh do you see getting pulled over) and definitely needs expanding into a much wider range of driver behaviours.

As for other previous comments about slow drivers, yes they are a pain, but you have to be patient. If you make a silly overtaking manoeuvre and end up crashing, it's your fault - no if's, but's or maybe's.

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coffeebaron

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#423765 3-Jan-2011 16:45

savag3: The Govt is about to ban laser jammers etc without much publicity. It will be an offence to "interfere with the operation of a speed measurement device". Still a Bill at this stage but I would expect it will be slipped through as per usual.

They will have to ban car headlights too, as these reduce the effectivness of laser guns. Also dark coloured cars are harder to detect with laser gun, so bright coloured cars only.

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rscole86

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#423775 3-Jan-2011 17:26

Dratsab:
sbiddle: The fact no demerit points are issued on speed camera tickets here in NZ shows they are solely for revenue gathering and not a serious attempt to change driver behaviour.

The fact that no demerit points are issued on speed camera tickets revolves around proving who the actual driver was. Yes they have a photo, but it without the access required to check drivers licence photo's, there would be a requirement for some other form of formal identification. This might involve:
- sending a letter requiring the registered to provide the drivers details, or
- sending someone to the registered owners house with a speed camera photo to see if an ID can be made, or
- summonsing the registered owner to Court, etc

I would have to agree with Steve(Dratsab), and disagree with Steve(sbiddle).
Police DO pursue those who were driving a vehicle and were not the registered owner. However, the onus is on the registered owner of the vehicle to provide the details of the driver at the time of offence. This is very common for rental cars, and commercial vehicles. When you receive your infringement notice, you are advised how you can request/perform a transfer of liability. However, as there are no demerits attached, a lot of registered owners will just pay the fine, and get reimbursed by the actual driver.
Speed cameras are not solely for gathering revenue, they are there as a visual deterrent to drivers, to remind them to look at their speed. This is why you will not see them hiding in bushes. You may not see them until it's too late, but if you were not speeding it would not matter where they decided to park up.
Local councils could do their own speed camera enforcement, however it is not economically viable, hence why you only see the Police using them. The amount of money from a speed camera infringement, vs the cost of the vans/operators/training + all the support staff, just does not add up to a reliable or viable form of revenue gathering.
The amount of time and effort required to prove who is driving would negate any positive impact that would have occured, and would, without any doubt in my mind, attract a lot of criticism from the public and the courts.

The costs involved with such an exercise would be astronomical and far beyond worth. In regards to your postulation about the seriousness of the attempts to change driver behaviour, I think you're wrong. There is a very serious attitude towards change, but there is a singular focus which is far from all-encompassing (ie how many trailer towing vehicles or trucks doing doing over 100kmh do you see getting pulled over) and definitely needs expanding into a much wider range of driver behaviours.

Police are very serious in their attitude to change driver behaviours, and have been working on a number of initiatives to make the frontline officers job easier, and make them more visible. One such thing is the SMART ticketing system, which allows an officer to more quickly and efficiently deal with road users, and let them get on their way. While also allowing them more time to watch other road users.

As for other previous comments about slow drivers, yes they are a pain, but you have to be patient. If you make a silly overtaking manoeuvre and end up crashing, it's your fault - no if's, but's or maybe's.

Slow drivers are always difficult to police, as there are proportionally less of them than there are speeders. Unfortunately I cannot remember the exact offence, but as there is not 'exact' way of measuring or judging a slow driver, an officer will have to rely on their judgement, while considering; duration of travel at x speed, opportunities to pull over, number of vehicles held up. Also, it can help if people actually report these drivers, and the Police are more likely to catch up with them then, and will then know how long it has been happening, based on where they manage to catch up with the offender.

EDIT: I forgot to include, the Ministry of Transport are investigating the inclusion of demerits on camera detected offences.
While point-to-point is being looked at as part of Safer Journeys 2010-2020, I personally think it will be difficult to implement here, as we do not have a lot of stretches of road where the flow of traffic would not only partially include the speed enforcement zone.

I suggest people read the following if they are truly interesting in Road Policing, and what the Ministry of Transport is looking at now, and in the future.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/
http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/roadsafetyreports/
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-policing-programme/

raytaylor

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#423777 3-Jan-2011 18:02

Its also interesting to note that in the USA, there are private companies that local authorities use to outsource their red light cameras and speed traps.

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rscole86

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#423778 3-Jan-2011 18:09

raytaylor: Its also interesting to note that in the USA, there are private companies that local authorities use to outsource their red light cameras and speed traps.

Do you have a source?
What is outsourced? The operating the equipment, mailing of letters, receiving of money?

Oblivian

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#423779 3-Jan-2011 18:24

Run by non-sworn officers (in most cases - volunteers/contractors to the police)

Infringements handled by its own infringement Beaurau and passed on to the designated division.

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/road/infringements.html

rscole86

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#423784 3-Jan-2011 18:49

Oblivian: Run by non-sworn officers (in most cases - volunteers/contractors to the police)

Infringements handled by its own infringement Beaurau and passed on to the designated division.

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/road/infringements.html

The camera operators are Police Employees, ie non-sworn, but they are not contractors/volunteers.

All infringements are handled in the Police Infringement Bureau, from data entry to accounts to photo requests to court preperation. The main third parties would be Westpac for receiving payments, and Datam who digitise most of the infringements.

Athlonite

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#423787 3-Jan-2011 19:15

Personally speed cams should be taking pics and sending fines to those who speed and drive to slow (unless that's the speed limit you have ie: car towing trailer or truck = 90Kmh), anything less should get a ticket as most often its the slow and ignorant driver who causes frustration to those following... If your not comfortable doing the open road limit of 100KMh perhaps you shouldn't be out on the highways or expressways Catch a bus or take the train and let those who are go unfrustrated

road code states if you can't for some reason drive at the posted speed limits you are Required to pull over and let those behind you who would be held up pass

raytaylor

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#423805 3-Jan-2011 20:57

Source requested above:
Redflex is one company that provide cameras and ticketing services for the local authority, who gets a percentage of the return for allowing redflex to install its redlight and speed trap cameras.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29681527/ns/us_news-life/

http://www.redflex.com/

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