Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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#3249907 17-Jun-2024 12:28

Wombat1:

New Zealand just isn’t a good place for a nuclear power station, and here's why. First off, there's nowhere safe to store the nuclear waste. We’re a country full of earthquakes and volcanoes, which makes it really risky. A big quake or eruption could easily mess up a storage site and cause a huge problem.

On top of that, New Zealand is small and doesn’t have the large, empty spaces needed for safe long-term storage of radioactive waste. Australia, on the other hand, has a huge desert in the middle of the continent where waste could be stored much more securely.

Plus, New Zealand has a strong anti-nuclear policy. The country is very protective of its clean, green image and prefers to focus on renewable energy. So, the idea of New Zealand going nuclear is about as likely as pigs flying. It’s just not going to happen, and the discussion isn’t really worth continuing.

Today, this conversation isn't worth happening, but in 10 years it will be.

My previous point is still valid - disposing of all the waste (not a physically large amount) will be be feasible in containers protected by heat shields in case of launch problems.

gzt

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#3249909 17-Jun-2024 12:32

It is the first of it's kind. It won't be online until 2030.. at the earliest. If it stays on schedule then in 2050 we may have some idea if everything went as planned in practice or not.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Wyoming-TerraPower-groundbreaking

It is powered by Natrium. At least the marketing is on schedule ; ).

decibel

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#3249910 17-Jun-2024 12:35

gzt: It is the first of it's kind. It won't be online until 2030.. at the earliest. If it stays on schedule then in 2050 we may have some idea if everything went as planned in practice or not.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Wyoming-TerraPower-groundbreaking

It is powered by Natrium. At least the marketing is on schedule ; ).

I am hoping to still be around.

(that noise you hear in the background is my wife laughing.)

Scott3

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#3249919 17-Jun-2024 13:19

Dingbatt:

Wombat: Agreed New Zealand has other options, it has a very small population, why do people even want to entertain the idea in NZ?

Because they want reliable non hydrocarbon fuelled baseload capability. The only source of that we have is geothermal.

Our other renewables could just as easily be called unreliables.

A decent chunk of NZ Hydro functions as baseload.

In general it's highly reliable, although there is some variation in production depending on rain / snowfall amounts. The dry year case which sees much planning is really just us having a little less water for hydro than normal.

Variability in renewables (wind, solar, tidal, variable flow run of the river hydro etc.) is just part of the NZ electricity landscape. With enough diverse sources it functions fine.

Issues will only really crop up if we start talking about extremely high renewable ratio's. i.e. to go from 98% to 100%, means ditching rarely run hydrocarbon plants, in favor of massively overbuilding renewables so we can handle rare events.

SaltyNZ

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#3249931 17-Jun-2024 13:49

Scott3:

Issues will only really crop up if we start talking about extremely high renewable ratio's. i.e. to go from 98% to 100%, means ditching rarely run hydrocarbon plants, in favor of massively overbuilding renewables so we can handle rare events.

Yeah that last couple of percent is basically the emergency standby generators. They're going to be running on hydrocarbons forever. (And nuclear isn't the answer for them either).

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wellygary

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#3249942 17-Jun-2024 14:22

gzt: It is the first of it's kind. It won't be online until 2030.. at the earliest. If it stays on schedule then in 2050 we may have some idea if everything went as planned in practice or not.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Wyoming-TerraPower-groundbreaking

It is powered by Natrium. At least the marketing is on schedule ; ).

The idea isn't new, Most nuclear powers have looked at Sodium fast breeders, seems its tricky to get the economics to work,

Also as an article i saw noted "Sodium burns on contact with air and explodes when plunged into water." so its a PITA when the plant staff get it on their clothes. :)

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SaltyNZ

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#3249962 17-Jun-2024 14:54

wellygary:

Also as an article i saw noted "Sodium burns on contact with air and explodes when plunged into water." so its a PITA when the plant staff get it on their clothes. :)

I imagine it's quite painful wherever they get it on their clothes...

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Batman

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#3249963 17-Jun-2024 14:55

wellygary:

Also as an article i saw noted "Sodium burns on contact with air and explodes when plunged into water." so its a PITA when the plant staff get it on their clothes. :)

unless you have it in your fish and chips (table salt) then it's completely fine, i'm staring at a big jar of it and licking some of the 'sodium' to no ill effect

so it really depends on who the sodium is married to (or not married)

Jase2985

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#3250018 17-Jun-2024 15:08

tdgeek:

My point was we get sun only when its up, and its less "up" when we need it in the cooler months. Wind can blow at any time, day and night. Unlike solar its gettable all year

Solar is gettable all year, just not in the same quantities, same as wind. Sometimes its windy, sometimes its not, its just not as seasonable as solar.

Jase2985

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#3250029 17-Jun-2024 15:18

Rikkitic:

Dingbatt:

Because they want reliable non hydrocarbon fuelled baseload capability. The only source of that we have is geothermal.

Our other renewables could just as easily be called unreliables.

What about wave energy? There are currently projects underway exploring this.

Waves are hard to make energy from, they keep destroying the equipment and there hasn't really been a feasible unit produced, lots of prototypes though.

Jase2985

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#3250031 17-Jun-2024 15:21

@Batman:

unless you have it in your fish and chips (table salt) then it's completely fine, i'm staring at a big jar of it and licking some of the 'sodium' to no ill effect

so it really depends on who the sodium is married to (or not married)

you do release what you are looking at is Sodium chloride, also known as table salt.

Sodium is a completely different thing

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SaltyNZ

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#3250035 17-Jun-2024 15:24

Batman:

so it really depends on who the sodium is married to (or not married)

soft grey metal that burns on contact with air and explodes on contact with water seeks greenish-yellow gas that dissolves lungs upon inhalation for a life making beautiful tasting chip babies

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Handle9

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#3250053 17-Jun-2024 16:03

tdgeek:
Running costs.

Solar and wind would have low running costs. Once they are up they just stand there gathering energy. Routine maintenance would be low, and transmission wise, you can locate as many as you can near the users

Wind has significant maintainence costs. It’s a rotating turbine suspended 60m in the air. It’s not easy or very cheap to maintain.

Gearboxes are still a big issue for wind turbines. To maintain one of those often requires removal which is horrendously expensive.

tdgeek

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#3250062 17-Jun-2024 16:23

sir1963:

Heat pumps have ensured that we have high demand during summer too. We need our hydro lates to recover during summer, refill and be ready for winter.

100%

How many use heatpumps as coolers in Summer?

tdgeek

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#3250063 17-Jun-2024 16:25

Wombat1:

I'm not arguing with you about the benefits of clean nuclear energy, in fact I fully support the move to nuclear in places like Aus.

Building a nuclear reactor in NZ is just not a very good idea. Also New Zealand has abundant renewable energy resources already, particularly hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, and solar power as others here have already mentioned. Agreed New Zealand has other options, it has a very small population, why do people even want to entertain the idea in NZ?

That

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