Police use of ANPR cameras

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1916 posts

Uber Geek

#635706 4-Jun-2012 22:36

kingjj:
SteveON: change plates... simple.

And when the plates don't match the vehicle? Where do you get the new plates? If you are savvy enough to swap plates for an identical car with the new plates being of nil interest than your probably either paranoid or a professional crim. ANPR's another tool, its not the be all and end all of Police technology.

my understanding is that the system only bring up an alert. does it also do make and model checking?

hashbrown

463 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635712 4-Jun-2012 22:45

kingjj: True, but cars can be flagged for anything which includes known to be driven by disqualified drivers etc. Any flag will trigger the system, its up to the staff present to decide whether its worth stopping or not.

IANAL but I suspect the police can't randomly stop someone any ask to see their license just because the vehicle is owned by a disqualified driver. If they can, this seems a step too far. If they can't then that leaves them needing to find a reason to pull the vehicle over, which is open to abuse.

I'm fine with this technology being used to pull over vehicles known to have been involved in a crime, but flagging vehicles for random inspections is a step too far.

blakamin

4431 posts

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Inactive user

#635723 4-Jun-2012 23:07

hashbrown:
kingjj:?True, but cars can be flagged for anything which includes known to be driven by disqualified drivers etc. Any flag will trigger the system, its up to the staff present to decide whether its worth stopping or not.

IANAL but I suspect the police can't randomly stop someone any ask to see their license just because the vehicle is owned by a disqualified driver. ?If they can, this seems a step too far. ?If they can't then that leaves them needing to find a reason to pull the vehicle over, which is open to abuse.

I'm fine with this technology being used to pull over vehicles known to have been involved in a crime, but flagging vehicles for random inspections is a step too far.

The police can randomly stop anyone, anytime, and ask to see a licence... no matter who owns it

SpookyAwol

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635785 5-Jun-2012 07:20

If you change plates - then the plates have come from somewhere.

Either they are stolen or have flags of their own - eg no reg / wof / driver

If they are legit plates, then why not just drive the legit car.
Ultimately if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about......

scuwp

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#635800 5-Jun-2012 08:13

hashbrown:
kingjj: True, but cars can be flagged for anything which includes known to be driven by disqualified drivers etc. Any flag will trigger the system, its up to the staff present to decide whether its worth stopping or not.

IANAL but I suspect the police can't randomly stop someone any ask to see their license just because the vehicle is owned by a disqualified driver. If they can, this seems a step too far. If they can't then that leaves them needing to find a reason to pull the vehicle over, which is open to abuse.

I'm fine with this technology being used to pull over vehicles known to have been involved in a crime, but flagging vehicles for random inspections is a step too far.

Yes the Police can stop you for pretty much any reason under the Land Transport Act, and for specific reasons under various criminal legislation. I can't believe you have never been through some kind of checkpoint?

The whole point of the ANPR system is to avoid that, and only pull over those vehicles that need a bit better checking out. The system is not fully automated, it displays the information to the Police who decide if it's worth stopping the vehicle or not.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

vinnieg

2260 posts

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Trusted

#635811 5-Jun-2012 08:53

SteveON:
kingjj:
SteveON: change plates... simple.

And when the plates don't match the vehicle? Where do you get the new plates? If you are savvy enough to swap plates for an identical car with the new plates being of nil interest than your probably either paranoid or a professional crim. ANPR's another tool, its not the be all and end all of Police technology.

my understanding is that the system only bring up an alert. does it also do make and model checking?

If it's the same as the UK Police AMNR, then yes it'll bring up model, make, rego, and VIN

Really cool system, glad we are about to use it. It's deployed in a lot of undercover cars in the UK for stolen car/sting ops

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

old3eyes

9119 posts

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Subscriber

#635815 5-Jun-2012 08:58

I can see these things being parked in the high revenue collecting parts of the country like south Auckland, Porirua in Wellington. Looking for stuff like expired WOF and regoo etc. Most likely cheaper than putting 6 patrol cars on the on and off ramps of the MWs up here and stopping every car that comes on or off..

Regards,

Old3eyes

Equinox IT

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hashbrown

463 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635825 5-Jun-2012 09:15

scuwp:Yes the Police can stop you for pretty much any reason under the Land Transport Act, and for specific reasons under various criminal legislation. I can't believe you have never been through some kind of checkpoint?

I've been through checkpoints, (although never asked to show my license) but those are random by nature. I guess I assumed they were covered by a specific piece of legislation, but obviously not. What I'm concerned about is the targetted harassment (albeit without malice) of people just because they are using a car that is in the name of a disqualified driver. How many times a month should they be required to pull over and show their license because the police are fishing?

vinnieg

2260 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#635845 5-Jun-2012 09:41

old3eyes: I can see these things being parked in the high revenue collecting parts of the country like south Auckland, Porirua in Wellington. Looking for stuff like expired WOF and regoo etc. Most likely cheaper than putting 6 patrol cars on the on and off ramps of the MWs up here and stopping every car that comes on or off..

Yeah that would be good, stop all the patrol cars coming past mine in the early hours of the morning(North Tawa/South Porirua)

Wouldn't stop all the ambulances though :(

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

SpookyAwol

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635871 5-Jun-2012 10:09

hashbrown:
I've been through checkpoints, (although never asked to show my license) but those are random by nature. I guess I assumed they were covered by a specific piece of legislation, but obviously not. What I'm concerned about is the targetted harassment (albeit without malice) of people just because they are using a car that is in the name of a disqualified driver. How many times a month should they be required to pull over and show their license because the police are fishing?

Thats the second time youve mentioned the disqualified driver. Are you being stopped frequently for that reason?
That says to me that Police are targeting the right car and fortunately a licenced driver is in charge.
Would you prefer that Police didnt stop vehicles of interest ?

People are disqualified for many reasons - one of which is drunk driving. It gives me peace of mind to know that technologies like ANPR are ensuring that those that shouldnt be driving can be targeted.

ANPR is not a speed camera. It does not automatically send a ticket for warrant and reg. Its a monitoring tool. A lot of of what it does is quite useful for the majority of drivers

BlueShift

1692 posts

Uber Geek

#635879 5-Jun-2012 10:18

SpookyAwol: ANPR is not a speed camera. It does not automatically send a ticket for warrant and reg. Its a monitoring tool. A lot of of what it does is quite useful for the majority of drivers

It isn't specifically a speed camera, but two of them working in concert can be - if your plate is snapped by one camera at 10:00 and by another camera 10km away at 10:08, your average speed was well over 50kmph.
They can quite easily be set up to to the automatic ticketing thing too, subject to any changes in legislation that may be needed.

1080p

1332 posts

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Inactive user

#635892 5-Jun-2012 10:32

I wonder how long it will be before this:

hashbrown

463 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635901 5-Jun-2012 10:35

SpookyAwol: That says to me that Police are targeting the right car and fortunately a licenced driver is in charge. Would you prefer that Police didnt stop vehicles of interest ?

Do I oppose the police harassing family members because of something a relative has done. Yes.

SpookyAwol: People are disqualified for many reasons - one of which is drunk driving. It gives me peace of mind to know that technologies like ANPR are ensuring that those that shouldnt be driving can be targeted.

1. It's not the people being targetted, it's the vehicles. The "clever" (using the word in the losest sense) disqualified drivers will transfer their cars into some elses name. Meanwhile the wife of a less dishonest disqualified driver who is supporting the family after hubby lost his license and job being is picked on by the cops every 5 minutes because the vehicle has been flagged.
2. This is probably something most people are comfortable with until they get flagged through a clerical error, buying a car from a disqualified driver, or they dated a cop who added them into the database after the relationship ended badly.

SpookyAwol: ANPR is not a speed camera. It does not automatically send a ticket for warrant and reg. Its a monitoring tool. A lot of of what it does is quite useful for the majority of drivers

No problem with this being used for warrant and reg checks. There is a clear infringement there. Also suspect this would be a far better way of picking up on disqualified drivers than flagging the vehicles they own.

SpookyAwol

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#635904 5-Jun-2012 10:38

BlueShift:

It isn't specifically a speed camera, but two of them working in concert can be - if your plate is snapped by one camera at 10:00 and by another camera 10km away at 10:08, your average speed was well over 50kmph.
They can quite easily be set up to to the automatic ticketing thing too, subject to any changes in legislation that may be needed.

.....so you break the law and would feel hard done by?

Its not used for that now. There are no black helicopters. Perhaps they would or could be used that way in the future if and when technology / legislation allows. There seem to be a lot of subjective views around something thats not currently relevant. Ultimately the theme that runs through this entire conversation is that laws are there to be followed. If not, you suffer the punitive consequences. That hasnt changed for centuries

<edit> lol at database hack :-)

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#635905 5-Jun-2012 10:38

SpookyAwol:

ANPR is not a speed camera. It does not automatically send a ticket for warrant and reg. Its a monitoring tool. A lot of of what it does is quite useful for the majority of drivers

We are discussing the potential applications of ANPR.

ANPR in itself does nothing other than read number plates.

It is quite possible for an ANPR equipped patrol vehicle to automatically issue tickets for expired registrations and warrants.

All patrol vehicles could become data collection devices, sending every plate and capture timestamp to a central database. This information could be stored for a long time. It could be very useful in police investigations, but there are privacy concerns!!

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