advice needed, courierpost item "delivered" issue

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2802 posts

Uber Geek

#963136 8-Jan-2014 11:21

The sender has their money and sent the item in good faith, there's not much incentive for them to put the, possibly considerable, effort into trying to sort it out.

The item has not been delivered to the address on the packet, and there's video proof of the fact, so the courier company needs to investigate it and either locate the item or arrange compensation. While the majority of courier drivers are honest blokes, there's certainly the odd dodgy one.

We had a spate of items about 10 years back going missing and the courier company told us straight up that "It's gone missing, one of our drivers will have stolen it, just file a claim". They had a major reshuffle not long after that thankfully and things improved dramatically.

@KnightNZ

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#963204 8-Jan-2014 12:47

kobiak: @hairy1 thank you! I will have a good read now.

I already contacted Citizens Advice Bureau, but I guess I will be better of see them in person.

Also we're waiting for seller's attempt to recover ticket from tickets agent.

Just had a skim through the Act. My understanding is:
- Clause 15 says they might be liable for up to $1500 total unless it's specified to be more.
- Clause 20 says the consignee (you) can take the same actions against the carrier as the contracting party (the sender).

- Clause 8.1.a says you're probably screwed...

hairy1

3332 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#963219 8-Jan-2014 13:16

I don't think it is owners risk. The Express Couriers terms and conditions are here:

http://www.expresscouriers.co.nz/files/terms---conditions/ecltermsandconditions1march2013/

There is also a claim process on the website and compensation FAQ here:

http://www.courierpost.co.nz/send/insurance/

http://www.courierpost.co.nz/track/make-a-claim/

Cheers.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

kobiak

1615 posts

Uber Geek

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#963243 8-Jan-2014 13:29

I just came back from two conversations with CAB people.

- probably there's nothing I can claim from sender/seller as everything was done right from their part and in good faith
- courier company did not deliver item, which is different from damaged. So there're good grounds on the Act to make them honor the claim for lost item
- myself most likely have no right to lodge courts complain against CourierPost as I was not in contract with them.
- got assured from one person that it's good case to win against them, as tickets are not cash and should be refunded.

Also I've received email from CourierPost that they confirm item missing/lost, good to back-up small courts claim.

I also booked a free session with layer at CAB on 20th January - this is earliest I could get :( Just to talk about whole situation and seek layer

Did not heard back from seller since Monday. Not sure if they contacted ticket agent and ask if it's possible to re-issue the ticket.

Need to get copy of recorded video, just in case.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#963255 8-Jan-2014 13:46

kobiak:
- myself most likely have no right to lodge courts complain against CourierPost as I was not in contract with them.

As per clause 20 I believe you do. Once you own the goods, you have the right to take action as the consignee, and have the same rights as the contracting party. (I'm no lawyer, but I am required to understand acts and such).

As well as the CAB, there may also be a community law center nearby http://www.communitylaw.org.nz/your-local-centre/find-a-community-law-centre/, they're usually staffed by law studients who consult with qualified lawyers. They're often good places to get good advice, I've had very mixed results with the CAB.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#963263 8-Jan-2014 13:57

My interpretation is

20 Actions by consignee if not contracting party
(1) Unless there is another clause or law that says otherwise, you can take action against the carrier for their mistakes, if the goods were sent to you and you own or have become the owner of the goods.
(2) Where you bring action-
(a) You will be deemed to be the contracting party, and have the same rights.
(b) The carrier has the same rights to defend themselves.

kobiak

1615 posts

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#963267 8-Jan-2014 14:00

@andrewNZ, thank you!

I'm 3 mins away from Grey Lynn Neighbourhood Law Office with free legal consultation.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

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kobiak

1615 posts

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#963305 8-Jan-2014 15:07

I'm back from free layer and inspired.

Lady told me this is good chance to get money back from CourierPost.

CourierPost treats tickets as money, not worldwide practice. Also it's not valuable goods, but they could argue that.

Lady recons CourierPost will be liable not only Carriage of the Goods Act but also under CGA as they have not provided service up to a standard, negligence of the delivery driver cause parcel missing/lost, thus CourierPost should be liable under CGA as well.

Will be reading all about Dispute Tribunal tonight.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#963352 8-Jan-2014 16:23

kobiak: I'm back from free layer and inspired.

Lady told me this is good chance to get money back from CourierPost.

CourierPost treats tickets as money, not worldwide practice. Also it's not valuable goods, but they could argue that.

Lady recons CourierPost will be liable not only Carriage of the Goods Act but also under CGA as they have not provided service up to a standard, negligence of the delivery driver cause parcel missing/lost, thus CourierPost should be liable under CGA as well.

Will be reading all about Dispute Tribunal tonight.

Have you tried speaking to someont at courierpost higher up the food chain? could be worthwhile.

Courierpost will waste more than the price of the tickets just to fight this.

skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#963363 8-Jan-2014 16:40

Did your track and trace show a map with the gps cords of where the item was 'delivered'?
All my recent courier post items have had this, pretty good feature

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#963382 8-Jan-2014 17:44

As the seller had the contract of carriage, I pressure they are actually required to sort it out with the courier company they commissioned to send you the goods. Not unless you arranged for the courier from your end?

I would ask the seller to sort it out, you shouldn't really have to arrange it from your end. You probably don't have all the info they need to make a claim anyway, such as a receipt for the courier and address where it was picked up from. The argument that you are now the owner may be open to interpretation under the terms, as you may not be the owner until you actually receive the goods.
If I had purchased something from a store and they had couriered, and the goods never arrived, then I would expect the shop to put the matter right. When I had something that was sent back to me courier damaged, the courier refused to deal with me, even though the goods were my own property. I had to do it all through the sender.

When I recently had something that I had sent to someone courier damaged, I sorted it all out for the buyer. Huge process to go through, with lots of conflicting information,and the information courier companies provide for making a claim is poor. But eventually I got paid out, minus the cost of postage and packaging. So if it cost you $10 to get it couriered, you will be out that amount, unless you make a claim for the postage under the CGA, in that they didn't furfill their contract.

kobiak

1615 posts

Uber Geek

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#963386 8-Jan-2014 17:53

@mattwnz looks like using Carriage of Goods Act under section 20, I can do this.

Lady at Community center, free legal advice, told me that too and suggested I should go to dispute tribunal without any doubts.

But I would thought as you, seller/sender would be responsible and should do the claiming and they did so when we asked. Now, I'm just getting more info and prepare necessary information for dispute tribunal if CourierPost refuse to settle this situation.

Ticketmaster is yet to respond...

helping others at evgenyk.nz

kobiak

1615 posts

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#963389 8-Jan-2014 17:56

@skewt it shows wider area where it was delivered. So no exact location, and I would think it will be just destination address write on parcel, and not actual delivery address.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#963390 8-Jan-2014 18:01

kobiak: @mattwnz looks like using Carriage of Goods Act under section 20, I can do this.

Lady at Community center, free legal advice, told me that too and suggested I should go to dispute tribunal without any doubts.

But I would thought as you, seller/sender would be responsible and should do the claiming and they did so when we asked. Now, I'm just getting more info and prepare necessary information for dispute tribunal if CourierPost refuse to settle this situation.

Ticketmaster is yet to respond...

Tickmasters contract was probably with the original buyer, possibly due to the privacy act or some other act. Possibly also depends on the terms on the tickets. So you may need to get the seller to contact them to assign future communications to you as the new owners of the tickets.
But good luck. I would probably try to put it in the hands of the seller to sort out first, as it is normal practice for the seller/sender to sort it out, so all of their systems would be setup to get it sorted out that way, rather than by the receiver.

kobiak

1615 posts

Uber Geek

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#963396 8-Jan-2014 18:14

@mattwnz yeah that's what we did, asked seller to contact ticketmaster and ask them to re-issue the ticket.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

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