Overseas Purchasing - GST Threshold about to be reduced

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#1357140 2-Aug-2015 14:28

mattwnz:
sbiddle:
sir1963:

As a guess, I would say the GST thing is another offshoot of the TPPA, the large corporations trying to protect their "Zoning" where they can have higher markups in certain areas. How soon will it be before we get told we can't import anything because it breaches some corporations copyright ?
It's been discussed in depth that parallel importing will very likely become illegal again as a result of TPP. What most people don't actually realise is that NZ is pretty unique in having parallel import rules - it's something that's banned in across the vast majority of the world.

Luckily the TPP agreement has failed at the moment. I fail to see much advantage to NZ in signing up. Not only will likely stop parallel importing, which will raise local pricing due to lack of competition with the lower pricing. But it will also mean NZ taxpayers will be paying more for drugs, and could mean some drugs may not be funded due to cost, as the drug buying agency won't be able to buy cheaper generic drugs. It is lose lose IMO for your average kiwi.

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes. It mostly seems like dodgy operations supplying stuff with warranties that may or may not be worth the paper that they are written on. Certainly I would never consider buying anything expensive on that basis.

Perhaps it is fine and they are just poor at marketing what they do...

mattwnz

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#1357154 2-Aug-2015 14:59

Geektastic:
mattwnz:
sbiddle:
sir1963:

As a guess, I would say the GST thing is another offshoot of the TPPA, the large corporations trying to protect their "Zoning" where they can have higher markups in certain areas. How soon will it be before we get told we can't import anything because it breaches some corporations copyright ?
It's been discussed in depth that parallel importing will very likely become illegal again as a result of TPP. What most people don't actually realise is that NZ is pretty unique in having parallel import rules - it's something that's banned in across the vast majority of the world.

Luckily the TPP agreement has failed at the moment. I fail to see much advantage to NZ in signing up. Not only will likely stop parallel importing, which will raise local pricing due to lack of competition with the lower pricing. But it will also mean NZ taxpayers will be paying more for drugs, and could mean some drugs may not be funded due to cost, as the drug buying agency won't be able to buy cheaper generic drugs. It is lose lose IMO for your average kiwi.

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes. It mostly seems like dodgy operations supplying stuff with warranties that may or may not be worth the paper that they are written on. Certainly I would never consider buying anything expensive on that basis.

Perhaps it is fine and they are just poor at marketing what they do...

For some thing like electronics yes, and I don'tusually buy those. But the warehouse imports quite a lot of branded stuff, including food and toiletries which are from overseas markets. You also have to look at things like music and blurays etc, which came down a lot in price after parallel importing started.
I have just purchased a camera, and got it from a nz retailer that doesn't parallel import. I could have saved a few hundred buying it from a parallel importer, but thought that if anything goes wrong it would be easier to deal with a NZ chain. But the shop I purchased it from did try to get the price down to the parallel importers price and sweetened the deal with a quality memory card, so I think it does keep the non parallel importers prices more honest.

shk292

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#1357185 2-Aug-2015 17:05

mattwnz:
sbiddle:
sir1963:

As a guess, I would say the GST thing is another offshoot of the TPPA, the large corporations trying to protect their "Zoning" where they can have higher markups in certain areas. How soon will it be before we get told we can't import anything because it breaches some corporations copyright ?
It's been discussed in depth that parallel importing will very likely become illegal again as a result of TPP. What most people don't actually realise is that NZ is pretty unique in having parallel import rules - it's something that's banned in across the vast majority of the world.

Luckily the TPP agreement has failed at the moment. I fail to see much advantage to NZ in signing up. Not only will likely stop parallel importing, which will raise local pricing due to lack of competition with the lower pricing. But it will also mean NZ taxpayers will be paying more for drugs, and could mean some drugs may not be funded due to cost, as the drug buying agency won't be able to buy cheaper generic drugs. It is lose lose IMO for your average kiwi.

Considering the TPP is being negotiated in confidence and is still under negotiation, there seem to be an awful lot of people around who know what's going to happen when it is finalized. We're going to get locked up in jail for breaking our iphones, pay more for drugs (despite the flat charge for prescriptions), not be able to parallel import, pay more for other stuff etc etc

It will be interesting to see what it is really like...

mattwnz

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#1357188 2-Aug-2015 17:14

shk292:
mattwnz:
sbiddle:
sir1963:

As a guess, I would say the GST thing is another offshoot of the TPPA, the large corporations trying to protect their "Zoning" where they can have higher markups in certain areas. How soon will it be before we get told we can't import anything because it breaches some corporations copyright ?
It's been discussed in depth that parallel importing will very likely become illegal again as a result of TPP. What most people don't actually realise is that NZ is pretty unique in having parallel import rules - it's something that's banned in across the vast majority of the world.

Luckily the TPP agreement has failed at the moment. I fail to see much advantage to NZ in signing up. Not only will likely stop parallel importing, which will raise local pricing due to lack of competition with the lower pricing. But it will also mean NZ taxpayers will be paying more for drugs, and could mean some drugs may not be funded due to cost, as the drug buying agency won't be able to buy cheaper generic drugs. It is lose lose IMO for your average kiwi.

Considering the TPP is being negotiated in confidence and is still under negotiation, there seem to be an awful lot of people around who know what's going to happen when it is finalized. We're going to get locked up in jail for breaking our iphones, pay more for drugs (despite the flat charge for prescriptions), not be able to parallel import, pay more for other stuff etc etc

It will be interesting to see what it is really like...

The government has already said that the government (which is tax payer funded ) will have to pay more to buy in drugs, as per the PM on this article http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70605894/john-key-says-nzs-drug-bill-set-to-rise-under-tpp-but-patients-protected

You do realise that the flat fee for prescriptions is just a token payment to cover the dispensing costs at the phamacy, and isn't the actual cost to the taxpayer to buy the drugs. Sure, someone getting the drugs at the store may initially appear to not be paying more when they pick up the drugs, but they will be paying more in their overall taxes. The government has already said that they will cover the extra costs in trhe drugs, and who funds the government...the taxpayer, which is the person who is paying the price rise. The problem is that the drug buying agency has a budget, so if some drugs go up in price, and they can't buy cheaper generics, then either they have to ask for more money from taxpayers, or not fund them.

shk292

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#1357207 2-Aug-2015 17:52

mattwnz:
shk292:
mattwnz:
sbiddle:
sir1963:

As a guess, I would say the GST thing is another offshoot of the TPPA, the large corporations trying to protect their "Zoning" where they can have higher markups in certain areas. How soon will it be before we get told we can't import anything because it breaches some corporations copyright ?
It's been discussed in depth that parallel importing will very likely become illegal again as a result of TPP. What most people don't actually realise is that NZ is pretty unique in having parallel import rules - it's something that's banned in across the vast majority of the world.

Luckily the TPP agreement has failed at the moment. I fail to see much advantage to NZ in signing up. Not only will likely stop parallel importing, which will raise local pricing due to lack of competition with the lower pricing. But it will also mean NZ taxpayers will be paying more for drugs, and could mean some drugs may not be funded due to cost, as the drug buying agency won't be able to buy cheaper generic drugs. It is lose lose IMO for your average kiwi.

Considering the TPP is being negotiated in confidence and is still under negotiation, there seem to be an awful lot of people around who know what's going to happen when it is finalized. We're going to get locked up in jail for breaking our iphones, pay more for drugs (despite the flat charge for prescriptions), not be able to parallel import, pay more for other stuff etc etc

It will be interesting to see what it is really like...

The government has already said that the government (which is tax payer funded ) will have to pay more to buy in drugs, as per the PM on this article http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70605894/john-key-says-nzs-drug-bill-set-to-rise-under-tpp-but-patients-protected

You do realise that the flat fee for prescriptions is just a token payment to cover the dispensing costs at the phamacy, and isn't the actual cost to the taxpayer to buy the drugs. Sure, someone getting the drugs at the store may initially appear to not be paying more when they pick up the drugs, but they will be paying more in their overall taxes. The government has already said that they will cover the extra costs in trhe drugs, and who funds the government...the taxpayer, which is the person who is paying the price rise. The problem is that the drug buying agency has a budget, so if some drugs go up in price, and they can't buy cheaper generics, then either they have to ask for more money from taxpayers, or not fund them.

Yes, all true. Which is one reason the govt will only go into the deal if the benefits outweigh the costs.

sleemanj

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#1357221 2-Aug-2015 18:23

Geektastic: ]

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes. It mostly seems like dodgy operations supplying stuff with warranties that may or may not be worth the paper that they are written on.

If this wasn't NZ, I'd agree, but it is and we have the Consumer Guarantees Act which makes explicit warranties almost pointless in any case (for consumers), no matter if it was parallel imported or an authorised reseller.

The only times a warranty has any practical application in NZ are

1. when the purchaser is not a consumer (business to business sales)
2. when the warranty provides more protection than the CGA (rare indeed)
3. the odd occasion when it might be easier to just show a warranty card than assert your rights granted under the CGA

In all cases, if you have a problem requiring attention, it is between consumer and retailer, not consumer and manufacturer or distributor, how the retailer sourced the product is their issue, not yours.

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nathan

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#1357224 2-Aug-2015 18:28

4. When the retailer goes out of business and the manufacturer decides to honor the warranty

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#1357225 2-Aug-2015 18:34

The effects of Parallel Importing on the NZ marketplace have been very significant. Just because people don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

With food & drink in particular the parallel importing of products (a classic example being Heineken) has allowed serious negation to occur with DB in New Zealand in regards to pricing. This exact scenario is mirrored across plenty of other products where a retailer may be able to source a product and has been able to use this as a negotiating tool.

You only have to look at the market in Auckland for parallel imported Coke which is sold at a lot of dairies. Some may exploit the cheaper pricing, but plenty simply pass on the lower costs selling a can of Coke for far less than what a NZ sourced product would cost. This has seen discounting occur on some Coke products to meet the market.

It doesn't need big retailers selling lots of parallel imported stock for benefits to flow through the economy.

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#1357227 2-Aug-2015 18:46

mattwnz: ... You do realise that the flat fee for prescriptions is just a token payment to cover the dispensing costs at the phamacy, and isn't the actual cost to the taxpayer to buy the drugs. ...

+1

Prescription drugs are astonishingly expensive, but most New Zealanders have no way of knowing this, because their Government (read: taxpayer) pays most of the cost.

Despite the excellent efforts of Pharmac, Big Pharma still makes a fortune at our expense.

Disclaimer: I have worked in the health system for decades, but have no vested interests in Pharmac, or any pharmaceutical company.

Sideface

LostBoyNZ

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#1357229 2-Aug-2015 18:52

If I go to ebay and look at what they say there about import taxes for high value shipments to be sent to NZ, they seem to be doing something similar but I cannot be sure.

Ebay does it in a very annoying way for businesses though... they charge import fees in their Global Shipping Program. Nice idea but there's no GST receipt, no mention of GST actually. So there's no way for businesses to claim the GST back.

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#1357234 2-Aug-2015 18:57

I actively avoid the global shipping crap on ebay.

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#1357282 2-Aug-2015 20:09

sleemanj:
Geektastic: ]

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes. It mostly seems like dodgy operations supplying stuff with warranties that may or may not be worth the paper that they are written on.

If this wasn't NZ, I'd agree, but it is and we have the Consumer Guarantees Act which makes explicit warranties almost pointless in any case (for consumers), no matter if it was parallel imported or an authorised reseller.

The only times a warranty has any practical application in NZ are

1. when the purchaser is not a consumer (business to business sales)
2. when the warranty provides more protection than the CGA (rare indeed)
3. the odd occasion when it might be easier to just show a warranty card than assert your rights granted under the CGA

In all cases, if you have a problem requiring attention, it is between consumer and retailer, not consumer and manufacturer or distributor, how the retailer sourced the product is their issue, not yours.

True. CGA offers a great deal of good protection.

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#1357308 2-Aug-2015 21:00

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes.

What I wonder about is how come parallel importing does reduce prices. How come goods cost so much less overseas than in NZ, that they can be imported here and still be cheaper?

The answer I come up with is that the corporations selling those goods used to see NZ as an easy target to price-gouge... we were a bunch of cows to be milked. That changed somewhat when parallel importing was allowed. The TPPA is an attempt to take us back to those days.

I think that there is no doubt about the effectiveness of Pharmac at parallel importing, which is why Pharmac is such an important target for the TPPA.

It's embarrassing that John Key and Tim Groser are so ready to give up these gains.

Geektastic

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#1357384 2-Aug-2015 23:35

sleemanj:
Geektastic: ]

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes. It mostly seems like dodgy operations supplying stuff with warranties that may or may not be worth the paper that they are written on.

If this wasn't NZ, I'd agree, but it is and we have the Consumer Guarantees Act which makes explicit warranties almost pointless in any case (for consumers), no matter if it was parallel imported or an authorised reseller.

The only times a warranty has any practical application in NZ are

1. when the purchaser is not a consumer (business to business sales)
2. when the warranty provides more protection than the CGA (rare indeed)
3. the odd occasion when it might be easier to just show a warranty card than assert your rights granted under the CGA

In all cases, if you have a problem requiring attention, it is between consumer and retailer, not consumer and manufacturer or distributor, how the retailer sourced the product is their issue, not yours.

Yes - fine if you have the time to waste messing about forcing people to do things that they don't want to do.

The CGA is a great theory but frankly the effort required to enforce it can be well out of proportion to the result - would it not be a whole lot better if NZ retailers merely behaved like say Amazon and just apologised and fixed the issue on the spot?

Also not a lot of help if "Value Low Price Super Cheap Gold Coin Skinflint Company" has simply been folded and the owner returned to Hong Kong or wherever, as happened recently to a woman locally here who lost $3k when just that happened....

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#1357385 2-Aug-2015 23:36

frankv:

I remain to be convinced just what difference parallel importing makes.

What I wonder about is how come parallel importing does reduce prices. How come goods cost so much less overseas than in NZ, that they can be imported here and still be cheaper?

The answer I come up with is that the corporations selling those goods used to see NZ as an easy target to price-gouge... we were a bunch of cows to be milked. That changed somewhat when parallel importing was allowed. The TPPA is an attempt to take us back to those days.

I think that there is no doubt about the effectiveness of Pharmac at parallel importing, which is why Pharmac is such an important target for the TPPA.

It's embarrassing that John Key and Tim Groser are so ready to give up these gains.

Too many middlemen in NZ. Too many ancient Customs Duties like the 10% add on on top of GST for clothes and shoes etc etc.

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