Interesting run in at PBTECH, Picking up goods, demanding a copy of my ID

Forums › Off topic › Interesting run in at PBTECH, Picking up goods, demanding a copy of my ID

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7785 posts

Uber Geek

#1715158 3-Feb-2017 21:19

mattwnz:

I would contact the privacy commissioner to seek clarification about that. My bank took a photocopy of mine yesterday for a new bank account, but I would expect that they would have those records locked in a vault for privacy and security, to prevent any risk of identity theft. I wouldn't be happy if shop wanted to photocopy them, because how are they securing that information, and why do they need to retain it on record? If you are buying online, they don't ask for it, nor do they store it. So why do they need it for pickup. I can appreciate them viewing it, so the correct person is picking up the item, as I have been asked to see it at Noel Leemings before. But they never asked to take a photocopy or photo of it.

I would be interested to hear the outcome.

Banks do have some additional obligations to comply with regulations meant to deter money laundering. Thye tend to qte the relevant statutes in the letters forms etc.

The company I work for tends to spread deposits between banks (it's a group risk management policy). So we have to supply details for a couple of directors and me (CEO) to multiple banks. It's a PITA.

Mike

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1715183 3-Feb-2017 22:16

MikeAqua:
mattwnz:

I would contact the privacy commissioner to seek clarification about that. My bank took a photocopy of mine yesterday for a new bank account, but I would expect that they would have those records locked in a vault for privacy and security, to prevent any risk of identity theft. I wouldn't be happy if shop wanted to photocopy them, because how are they securing that information, and why do they need to retain it on record? If you are buying online, they don't ask for it, nor do they store it. So why do they need it for pickup. I can appreciate them viewing it, so the correct person is picking up the item, as I have been asked to see it at Noel Leemings before. But they never asked to take a photocopy or photo of it.

I would be interested to hear the outcome.

Banks do have some additional obligations to comply with regulations meant to deter money laundering. Thye tend to qte the relevant statutes in the letters forms etc.

The company I work for tends to spread deposits between banks (it's a group risk management policy). So we have to supply details for a couple of directors and me (CEO) to multiple banks. It's a PITA.

Yeah it is a PITA just had to provide all mine again to the bank because of these new regulations, even though I initially provided them several years ago. Must be costing the country heaps in wasted time. If they are worried about money laundering, I think the property market in Auckland could deserve a good look at.

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

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#1715222 4-Feb-2017 01:10

mattwnz:

Yeah it is a PITA just had to provide all mine again to the bank because of these new regulations, even though I initially provided them several years ago. Must be costing the country heaps in wasted time. If they are worried about money laundering, I think the property market in Auckland could deserve a good look at.

You can whine all you like but the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 and the regulations promulgated under it were required to address the "recommendations" (in reality cannot be ignored by any country not interested in being seen as a pariah state) of the Financial Action Task Force, an inter-governmental body of not exactly inconsequential influence. This wasn't some bureaucratic fiat.

pctek

807 posts

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#1715516 4-Feb-2017 18:48

Walk away. Their after sales service is total rubbish anyway

Nudibranch

86 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

#1715770 5-Feb-2017 15:21

tripp:
scuwp: You should have asked for a copy of their drivers license to prove who you dealt with in the store and a copy of their employment agreement to prove they had the authority to act in the company's behalf. Fairs fair.

That just made me LOL

Same here! Brilliant.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1715806 5-Feb-2017 18:18

dejadeadnz:

mattwnz:

Yeah it is a PITA just had to provide all mine again to the bank because of these new regulations, even though I initially provided them several years ago. Must be costing the country heaps in wasted time. If they are worried about money laundering, I think the property market in Auckland could deserve a good look at.

You can whine all you like but the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 and the regulations promulgated under it were required to address the "recommendations" (in reality cannot be ignored by any country not interested in being seen as a pariah state) of the Financial Action Task Force, an inter-governmental body of not exactly inconsequential influence. This wasn't some bureaucratic fiat.

Actually there are many people 'whining' about this. I read an article in the paper about financial advisers also 'whining', and saying that these requirements makes it uneconomical to have small clients. eg those with investments of 50k or less, due to all the compliance required, and they have to contact all their clients and get them to provide all this new information, and get things signed by JPs etc.. So this isn't good for everyday NZers who want to invest. Apparently these rules aren't even yet in place for real estate agents etc yet, I believe however they are coming in very soon. Why they don't use the 'Real me' service for doing this, I don't know. I signed up to realme, but I don't think it is very widely used by third parties to authenticate people, which I thought was one of it's purposes. Even Kiwibank needed me to provide all my details again, even though Realme was a part NZ post initiative. Although ironically Kiwibank doesn't seem to use realme, but BNZ bank does. WTH https://www.realme.govt.nz/#whos-on-board

Maybe this computer shop needs to signup to realme for business to confirm peoples identities, if they are doing this sort of thing. https://www.realme.govt.nz/realme-business/

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

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#1715807 5-Feb-2017 18:27

Again, it's because the rules are needed to meet the recommendations of the Financial Action Task Force -- they really aren't going to care who Realme is owned by. And the "Know Your Customer" requirements really aren't that onerous. Christ, I was one of the people implementing and managing the people who were going to operationalise this stuff day to day for one of the large banks. And heavens knows that banks will be the first to complain if anything is excessively troublesome and got in the way of the $$. No one at where I was made a peep.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1715810 5-Feb-2017 18:45

dejadeadnz:

Again, it's because the rules are needed to meet the recommendations of the Financial Action Task Force -- they really aren't going to care who Realme is owned by. And the "Know Your Customer" requirements really aren't that onerous. Christ, I was one of the people implementing and managing the people who were going to operationalise this stuff day to day for one of the large banks. And heavens knows that banks will be the first to complain if anything is excessively troublesome and got in the way of the $$. No one at where I was made a peep.

Banks can do it reasonably easily, because they have the staff and resources, and they make huge profits. Plus they can refuse to let people deduct money from their account or setup new accounts until the customer provides the information. This means that they can also stage asking for that information over a long period of time. For example I have only been asked to do it by one bank, yet all banks (apart from maybe the BNZ who use realme) should be asking me to provide each one with that informtion.The financial advisors though maybe smaller operators, so proportionally it will costs them more, especially if they were charging their hourly rate to do it. They have to cover that cost, or build it into their margin on the investment.

However in terms of this particular topic, if more businesses used Realme, then the need to photocopy peoples drivers license or passport should be eliminated

tripp

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#1719344 13-Feb-2017 12:58

Just an update on this.

On friday i had an email from them with some info that I requested from them. I also had a courier turn up this morning with more info in that.

Not overly happy as I still don't see the need to hold a copy of my license for "all of time" and had the following to say

**************************

To give you a bit more information, our customer database is divided up between branches, such that if you open an account with one branch, the information is only available from that particular branch, until such a time that it needs to be made available to another for any service we may be providing.

Your transaction details are available to view online, you just need to login to your account, and all transactions associated to that account are available under the Orders section.

I hope you will understand that our staff member was within our company policy to take a copy of your license at the time, but that we also take our customer’s privacy very seriously, and this information is not used or distributed to any department or staff member internally who does not require it to perform their duty. Nor is the information given to any third party.

*********************************

However there seems to be no way to get them to destroy any photocopies they have created after a set amount of time etc.

dclegg

2806 posts

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#1719352 13-Feb-2017 13:17

I had fun shopping with PB Tech on the weekend too.

I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted from them, so I created a list using their website tools, printed that out, and then went in to pick them up.

I went to the sales counter and told the person behind the counter that I was looking for these items, and could she please help me find them. She said "The NAS is over there <it wasn't; but she had the right side of the room, at least>, and the hard drives are in the cabinet over there". I thanked her, and asked if the hard drives I had chosen were suitable to the task. She shrugged, and asked me to go queue up at the service counter to ask.

Once I had the information from the service counter, I went to grab the items. I was in the middle of grabbing the hard drives when the (same) person behind the sales counter said "Excuse me sir, you're not allowed behind there. "I asked you where to get the hard drives from, and you said over there", I replied. "No", she countered. "I said they were over there. I didn't say you could go get one from there.". "Then why didn't you get me one when I asked you where to get them from?". <silence>

nunz

1421 posts

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#1719575 13-Feb-2017 19:12

yitz:

It's just a credit card/fraud thing, hotels will do this too.

Writing the D/L number on the sales form would prove the Id was sighted. At the bank that's all that was required. Banks don't photo copy your stuff and that's real money we are talking about - although Westpac expects me to provide a photo Id when I'm depositing cash in my account - and wont accept their own Id as valid proof.

nunz

1421 posts

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Inactive user

#1719606 13-Feb-2017 19:20

tripp:

Just an update on this.

On friday i had an email from them with some info that I requested from them. I also had a courier turn up this morning with more info in that.

Not overly happy as I still don't see the need to hold a copy of my license for "all of time" and had the following to say

**************************

To give you a bit more information, our customer database is divided up between branches, such that if you open an account with one branch, the information is only available from that particular branch, until such a time that it needs to be made available to another for any service we may be providing.

Your transaction details are available to view online, you just need to login to your account, and all transactions associated to that account are available under the Orders section.

I hope you will understand that our staff member was within our company policy to take a copy of your license at the time, but that we also take our customer’s privacy very seriously, and this information is not used or distributed to any department or staff member internally who does not require it to perform their duty. Nor is the information given to any third party.

*********************************

However there seems to be no way to get them to destroy any photocopies they have created after a set amount of time etc.

Send them formal requests for a copy of all data held on you as per the the 1993 Privacy Act. They are obliged to provide it in 10 working days. If enough people do that, and ask to see their data retention policy ( which is required if you keep personal info) and their security policy (required if they are keeping important privacy stuff like your photo copied license) and a copy of their SOP in regards to staff training, data destruction processes ( e.g. how do you know it isn't thrown in the dumpster to be stolen from outside?). then repeat for every branch. They will get the message pretty quickly.

Fight fire with fire and bureaucracy with well ... bureaucracy .. don't fight them, just play the game ... but to your advantage.

MadEngineer

4291 posts

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#1719744 13-Feb-2017 22:57

nunz:
yitz:

It's just a credit card/fraud thing, hotels will do this too.

Writing the D/L number on the sales form would prove the Id was sighted. At the bank that's all that was required. Banks don't photo copy your stuff and that's real money we are talking about - although Westpac expects me to provide a photo Id when I'm depositing cash in my account - and wont accept their own Id as valid proof.

weird, I've deposited cash many times at Westpac and never had a problem. Are you depositing lots of coins? Buskers are often asked for id for example.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

tripp

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#1719779 14-Feb-2017 07:06

They have sent me the only copy of my DL that they say they have so that has now been destroyed. I also sent them the link that was posted back on page 2 about the telco and photo copying DL's and how the privacy commission still saw an issue with it.

I won't be doing a web order with pickup from them again, I will just go and buy it out right or get it couriered to me next time.

Taubin

557 posts

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#1719814 14-Feb-2017 08:27

I've never had a good shopping experience at PBTech when I went into their stores. I'd much rather spend a little bit more and shop elsewhere to get better service, and people that actually know the product they are selling. There is no way they are going to photocopy my drivers license to pick up something I paid for. Sure, I'll show it to them, no way in hell are they making a copy of it, especially with them not having any form of retention policy stating when it will be deleted, and what it will be used for. Screw them.

ZL2TOY/ZL1DMP

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