A very sad commentary on our society.

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#3162405 22-Nov-2023 14:13

marpada:

Technofreak:

Physical and verbal abuse to staff is up to four times worse than in Australia.

In Australia many malls, stores and even govt offices have notices about abuse won't be tolerated, so guess it's a thing.

Those signs are just complying with some health and safety BS to say that you have a policy about your staff not getting abused.

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MikeB4

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#3162417 22-Nov-2023 14:20

sen8or:

There was a time where "wait till your father comes home", installed an enormous level of fear, such that it curtailed the very activity that caused those words to be uttered in the first place

The good old days when there was no crime......Yeah Nah

networkn

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#3162425 22-Nov-2023 14:50

SaltyNZ:

We have two teenagers + the FIL was moved in as he lived alone on a bush block otherwise. I'm in Auckland and all 5 of us were living in the garage during L4 because our house had just been demolished for renovations.

That sounds like the opposite of a good time.

We are both essential workers (IT and Doctor), for a good chunk of 2020/1 we both worked 16+ hours a day, 6-7 days a week under enormous stress, which we survived by the skin of our teeth. By the end of 2021 we were both very broken, exhausted and burnt out, and it has taken a good long time to get our mental state healthy(ish) and its still not perfect. We were fortunate we were fairly well resourced during that time, and our kids are both amazing and coped despite seeing next to nothing of us for quite a long time. Those families who had neither or either of those things not as well as us have my never ending sympathy and I can totally understand why people struggled and why kids are now off the rails. Add to that the financial pressures of the last two years, it's a nightmare. I predicted at the end of 2021, that mental health was the next pandemic, and so it has turned out to be. My sister works in mental health, the stories she tells are both incredibly alarming and scary.

I can personally attest to how hard it can be to fully understand a situation you haven't experienced, and I'll be the first to say I didn't understand mental health issues and thought I'd never suffer them, until I did. If you were largely unaffected by the lockdown(s), I am genuinely happy for you, but the impact to society was massive. What we asked our kids to put up with, was so far outside of what I ever expected, it's surprising to me my kids are doing OK (great even). Even that takes it's toll, knowing you aren't giving your kids what you planned etc).

I am not saying any of that to garner sympathy, only to demonstrate that there was another side of the coin to those who found lockdowns easy or enjoyable, or at least not a massive struggle.

I absolutely believe that the ram raids and robberies (esp done by kids) are far less about money and the cost of living crisis than the strain that COVID and it's related measures, took on peoples well being mental and otherwise. School attendance is at a very low percentage, truancy is rampant and that isn't majority caused by the cost of living crisis, it has been a problem since the first lockdown.

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#3162431 22-Nov-2023 15:00

networkn:

That sounds like the opposite of a good time.

I certainly would have preferred living in the house instead of the garage. But Level 4 itself was great.

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#3162432 22-Nov-2023 15:00

MikeB4:

sen8or:

There was a time where "wait till your father comes home", installed an enormous level of fear, such that it curtailed the very activity that caused those words to be uttered in the first place

The good old days when there was no crime......Yeah Nah

Ofcourse there was crime, but there were consequences too.

alasta

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#3162433 22-Nov-2023 15:02

The 2020 lockdown was an incredibly lucky coincidence of timing for me. It happened at a stage of my life when am older and have financial independence, and it happened shortly after I moved out of a house where I was being terrorised by neighbours, and shortly before someone close to me was diagnosed with cancer.

If the timing had been different then it would have taken a massive toll on me, so I can totally empathise with people who were badly affected.

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#3162434 22-Nov-2023 15:02

I am one of the ones who got off easy. I am sorry you and yours had such a rough time. I hope things continue to improve for all of you.

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#3162437 22-Nov-2023 15:04

It all comes back to community. No community, then everyone is a stranger and it's easy to condemn, rob, do whatever to a stranger. It is what ALL governments have been pushing. The idea of individualism and the fairy tale of "you are responsible for your success in life" (or US way "anyone can become president"). While harmless upon the 1st look the message is insidious. Basically you put all the blame of no success, non conformity, bad luck upon yourself. Either you are wise enough to see the lie that is being propagated or it eats away at you. Mix that with a less fortunate upbringing and you create all sorts of things. Now we have the post effects of Covid and gifts to the 1% (i.e. inflation) to deal with. Once you get people to the point where they loose hope crime naturally rises. In extreme forms or at some point the value of a life starts deteriorating too. That's when you reach the US/south america/... levels, where crime also means death.

There is always a part of society that cannot be "saved". My take is that there are multiple complex reasons for that that society is never able to address. This is a portion of <5%. The problems start -as pointed out above- if that percentage increases police get inundated and at some point political systems start to waiver (see US).

Then what is the solution? In short, Jacinda was right. "Be kind". I translate that to "let people live the way they want to as long as they don't impinge the right of others and be happy for them". Support community in any way shape or form. e.g. Know your neighbours. Try and at least listen to other trains of thought and don't dismiss them out of hand. Additionally create the politics that allow 95% of the population to have a fulfilled life and not have to worry about essentials. I honestly believe that -at least the OECD countries- are easily capable of achieving that given the right incentives. The thing is that the choices that have to be made for that to work go against powerful lobby groups that in turn shape our politics today.

Have a look at what will happen over the next 3y (well I still hope that they will be bogged down in bickering). Benefits will deteriorate and power and money will be pushed to the few. This in turn will directly feed into more dissatisfaction in most people and a spike in crime. In order to make it work then the govt needs to crack down on crime to create a big enough stick to quell the uprising. I really don't think that that is the right approach in 2023 anymore. But alas it seems the whole world is prone to the same illusion. Maybe the aim is to go out on a final hurrah. TBC I guess.

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#3162439 22-Nov-2023 15:11

I think maybe more medium density housing could help. I live in a complex where everyone knows their neighbours well, and our residents' association organises social events and encourages residents to get involved in our projects.

Lately I have been becoming very anxious about the behaviour I have been seeing around Wellington more generally, but in my immediate community I feel very safe and supported.

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#3162441 22-Nov-2023 15:14

networkn:

I am not saying any of that to garner sympathy, only to demonstrate that there was another side of the coin to those who found lockdowns easy or enjoyable, or at least not a massive struggle.

I absolutely believe that the ram raids and robberies (esp done by kids) are far less about money and the cost of living crisis than the strain that COVID and it's related measures, took on peoples well being mental and otherwise. School attendance is at a very low percentage, truancy is rampant and that isn't majority caused by the cost of living crisis, it has been a problem since the first lockdown.

Yes, I'm sure it was more difficult for some others than us. We were both essential workers but were capable of working 100% remotely. We were very fortunate that living 5 people in one garage with a camping shower was the worst we had to deal with.

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tweake

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#3162452 22-Nov-2023 15:53

the level 4 lockdown was pretty cruisy for me. i was nursing injury anyway so it was great to get time off.

however as essential service working from home or from work over the lockdowns had its moments. the biggest thing was dealing with people. people really showed their true colors and it wasn't all pretty. one parts shop was open for essential services but the manager was a nasty angry pos who didn't want to serve anyone. so i had to go find product elsewhere, fortunately a local opened up their shop just for me. fortunately we still have a lot of good people around.

the auckland checkpoints where not much fun. the guys where really sick of that.

one of the interesting things was mate down by the retirement home. normally there is almost no one walking around the streets. in lockdown it was packed with people walking around. the mentality of it.

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#3162453 22-Nov-2023 16:02

sen8or:

Ofcourse there was crime, but there were consequences too.

There are consequences now however, as we should be the way it's dealt with is changing as the old ways of beat up and orlock up were not working. If they did work things would-be better now.

Technofreak

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#3162461 22-Nov-2023 16:21

MikeB4:

sen8or:

Ofcourse there was crime, but there were consequences too.

There are consequences now however, as we should be the way it's dealt with is changing as the old ways of beat up and orlock up were not working. If they did work things would-be better now.

I'm not so sure they didn't work. Those were the days when if you got caught doing something silly by the police you didn't go home and complain to your parents as you'd get round two. Now the parents make a complaint about their little angels being ill treated by the police.

A lack of decent parenting and respect for authority is an underlying cause of our problems. The time honoured Jesuit saying of "Give us the child till age 7 (or there-a-bouts) and we'll give you the adult", holds as true as it ever did.

A smart tap around the backside was a very quick, timely and effective way to improve ones attitude. The anti smacking law hasn't stopped child abuse but has taken away one very effective tool out of the attitude adjustment toolbox.

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#3162462 22-Nov-2023 16:23

If the old ways worked we would have less crime now. Sadly that's not the case as we failed at rehabilitation and addressing the root causes.

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#3162463 22-Nov-2023 16:32

SaltyNZ:

Yes, I'm sure it was more difficult for some others than us. We were both essential workers but were capable of working 100% remotely. We were very fortunate that living 5 people in one garage with a camping shower was the worst we had to deal with.

For me and many people I know, it was a combination of young children and an unreasonable and demanding manager at work which combined to make the situation toxic. Either could have been dealt with on their own, but together they combined to make lockdown an absolute hell. Not so much the first one, where there was a lot of understanding and "kindness", but the final one in 2021 which was much longer - almost four months for Auckland. I quit my job during the final lockdown because of the situation I found myself in, and I was lucky to land on my feet. Others were not so lucky and were in much worse situations than me.

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