29 Miners Stuck in West Coast

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#407728 22-Nov-2010 15:11

Vodafone sent this out now:

Vodafone support for Pike River mine explosion

Following Friday’s explosion at Pike River mine, Vodafone has been working with The New Zealand Red Cross to provide essential communications support to those affected.

The Vodafone Network Operations Team has deployed extra mobile cellsites to the region to best manage capacity while there is significantly increased demand in the area. All services in the region are working, and additional 3G capacity will be available today.

Our rural partner Farmside are currently working to deploy a self-aligning satellite dish providing a free wifi hotspot in the most appropriate and needed location.

We want to ensure that the people most intimately involved don’t have to worry about telecommunications during this very difficult time. For that reason we have offered free local, national and mobile calls to the families of those affected as well as the volunteers. This support can be accessed either through the Red Cross or from 100% Ellery’s in Greymouth.

Vodafone will continue to do all it can to support the Pike River Mine team, their families and everyone involved in the rescue effort. The thoughts of the 1500 strong Vodafone New Zealand team are with the West Coast community.

marmel

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#407826 22-Nov-2010 19:28

I must say I have been very impressed with the way the CEO Peter Whittall has spoken throughout this operation.

He appears to really know what he is talking about and seems pretty straight up when answering questions.

leaplae

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#407833 22-Nov-2010 19:56

I see they are now using a robot - I was right!

Klipspringer

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#407868 22-Nov-2010 21:05

old3eyes: I'm getting a little concerned with the police down there sitting on their hands in the name of safety. What's wrong with sending in a couple of guys with good breathing gear like the firemen have on the train that they have in the mine to have a look. The longer they wait.. though I suspect by the force of the blast it may be all bad news. Hope I'm wrong..

I have to say I agree. Its an absolute disgrace that nothing has yet been done. Yes its unsafe but its totally unacceptable that people are just standing by. Imagine the World trade center disaster happening in NZ, it would have been twice the death toll, but with 0 injured firemen. What happened to heroes. Do we have such people living in this country. For all we know some of those miners may have survived the explosion, and even managed to hang onto life for another 48hours. Yet they still waiting in vain for help. There comes a time, when sometimes it just necessary to take certain risks to save lives. And in my opinion, this is one of those times.

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#407869 22-Nov-2010 21:06

nakedmolerat: i have a plan, this will need a very very long rope. tie it to a brave rescuer. let him or her go into the tunnel with excellent equipments. if anything happen, we can quickly pull him out to safety. i understand the safety concern but the chance for them to survive is decreasing over time.

p/s: i am not a coal mine expert

and what happens to the rope in a fire/explosion? *poof* no more rope.

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boby55

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#407875 22-Nov-2010 21:08

Regs:
and what happens to the rope in a fire/explosion? *poof* no more rope.

Steel Rope ;)

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#407880 22-Nov-2010 21:18

boby55:
Regs:
and what happens to the rope in a fire/explosion? *poof* no more rope.

Steel Rope ;)

so now you need a really strong person to carry 2km of steel rope uphill... and hope it doesnt create a spark rubbing against the stone.

No matter what sort of rope it is, imagine being dragged 2km along the ground when you got 'pulled out'.

Next idea?

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marmel

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#407883 22-Nov-2010 21:19

BraaiGuy:
old3eyes: I'm getting a little concerned with the police down there sitting on their hands in the name of safety. What's wrong with sending in a couple of guys with good breathing gear like the firemen have on the train that they have in the mine to have a look. The longer they wait.. though I suspect by the force of the blast it may be all bad news. Hope I'm wrong..

I have to say I agree. Its an absolute disgrace that nothing has yet been done. Yes its unsafe but its totally unacceptable that people are just standing by. Imagine the World trade center disaster happening in NZ, it would have been twice the death toll, but with 0 injured firemen. What happened to heroes. Do we have such people living in this country. For all we know some of those miners may have survived the explosion, and even managed to hang onto life for another 48hours. Yet they still waiting in vain for help. There comes a time, when sometimes it just necessary to take certain risks to save lives. And in my opinion, this is one of those times.

I think you are mistaken about a lot of things here.

Firstly, if the NY fire service knew the twin towers were going to collapse or even there was a good risk they would collapse the fireman would never have gone in in the first place. No one thought that a plane was capable of bringing the towers down.

Second, no one is just standing by. All of the agencies be it the police, the mine or the various other rescue groups involved are doing all they can to get into the mine as soon as possible. They also all appear to be in agreement with waiting until the atmosphere is at a safe level.

Thirdly, all you know is what you have seen on the news (and believed judging by your comment). The guys on the ground will have a much better idea on the reality of the situation which frankly was extremely bleak as soon as the explosion occured. I'm not sure if you know much about explosives but the guy driving the loader was much further away from the blast site than the other miners yet he was still blown 15m along the tunnel. An explosion of that magnitude would be barely survivable in my opinion so everyone on site that has some experience in these things will know that the chances of finding any of the 29 alive was very remote even if they had been down there 5 minutes after the initial explosion.

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#407896 22-Nov-2010 22:10

marmel:

Thirdly, all you know is what you have seen on the news (and believed judging by your comment). The guys on the ground will have a much better idea on the reality of the situation which frankly was extremely bleak as soon as the explosion occured. I'm not sure if you know much about explosives but the guy driving the loader was much further away from the blast site than the other miners yet he was still blown 15m along the tunnel. An explosion of that magnitude would be barely survivable in my opinion so everyone on site that has some experience in these things will know that the chances of finding any of the 29 alive was very remote even if they had been down there 5 minutes after the initial explosion.

Sadly, I agree with this comment. I hope I'm wrong though.

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#407924 22-Nov-2010 22:52

kingjj:
leaplae: Why not send In some sort of Remotely Controlled Vechicle? Like a Rover-style car or a quadcopter, with a live video feed, so if anything explodes, no rescuers are hurt. They mention that there is some heat underground - would that ignite any gas?

And if the miners are still alive why risk another explosion that could potentially kill them? The Chilean miners survived over a week with no contact or support, hopefully our boys can do the same.

I agree.

Avoiding another explosion is an excellent idea and no public servant (police or fire) being paid $45,000-ish / year wants to go home dead....and no one should expect them too.

The Chilean mine wasn't a coal mine.....this mine is a very different beast, apparently. Consider: A high price is being paid to extract a material we don't actually *need* anyway.

Also: The specific gravity of both methane and carbon monoxide is lighter than air....slightly....so if that access tunnel slopes upward, the miners are probably already dead as the gases would be rising into the mine....not out of it ...while the ventilation system wasn't / isn't operating.

It's seems impossible they would be alive 4 days later if they didn't have a fresh air base to get into and stay safe. The Chileans had such a base to retreat to...and that was where they were found.

The Pike River miners' breathing gear only last about 25-30 minutes.....so if they didn't get out alive, or to a place with good air by then, chances are they won't be ever.

I hope they do.....but.....well....it doesn't look good and hasn't since about 2 hours after the explosion.

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#407937 22-Nov-2010 23:51

BraaiGuy:
old3eyes: I'm getting a little concerned with the police down there sitting on their hands in the name of safety. What's wrong with sending in a couple of guys with good breathing gear like the firemen have on the train that they have in the mine to have a look. The longer they wait.. though I suspect by the force of the blast it may be all bad news. Hope I'm wrong..

I have to say I agree. Its an absolute disgrace that nothing has yet been done. Yes its unsafe but its totally unacceptable that people are just standing by. Imagine the World trade center disaster happening in NZ, it would have been twice the death toll, but with 0 injured firemen. What happened to heroes. Do we have such people living in this country. For all we know some of those miners may have survived the explosion, and even managed to hang onto life for another 48hours. Yet they still waiting in vain for help. There comes a time, when sometimes it just necessary to take certain risks to save lives. And in my opinion, this is one of those times.

Ok so let's take this stupid argument and break it down a bit.

A few "heroes" go in to save 29 people, defying all the advice to the contrary from the world's experts who are at the site. What happens if those people don't return or communication is lost? Do we send in more heroes to save those people as well as the miners? What happens if it repeats? At what point do we stop sending people in?

The experts at the site probably have hundreds of years of experience combined in mines and mine rescues, and rescues in general, but oh no BraaiGuy says lets send in a few heroes and risk their lives too. Well gee, why didn't they think of that already? Stupid experts obviously have no idea what they're doing, BraaiGuy you better jump on the next plane down there and show them what to do. Be sure to pick up old3eyes on the way because he's obviously an expert as well.

It's interesting how people with absolutely zero knowledge of mines and rescues are the ones saying to send people in, yet everyone at the site, up to and including the PM, supports waiting until it's safe.

I'm sure they're all having a laugh just standing around and waiting.......... yeah right.

SpookyAwol

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#408181 23-Nov-2010 14:09

Reading through the Herald readers comments about the disaster, it sickens me that a majority of people seem to have negative views about the response. Typically its 'the police' fault.

These are people who, the hardest and most dangerous thing they do is, drive down to the nearest cafe and choose a latte.
They have suddenly become mining disaster experts and want to question every decision made.

New Zealand is a small country with limited resources, yet they have put together the best teams of emergency workers, experts and rescue workers available. They are under advisement from some of the worlds best experts in this type of rescue. It is a joint managed incident response.

Yet the good old kiwi knocker wants to complain and blame someone. Police are damned if they do and damned if they dont. If it does end badly, then every single one will come out of the woodwork and will say 'I told you so'

This isnt TV people! - and its no where near similar to the Chilean disaster. The rescuers and personnel down at the mine are real people with real families. They are going through the same frustrations as you, however, you just cant be blasé with the lives of the rescuers.

We can only hope it does end well, however the fact that all of those in charge - and thats ALL agencies - agree this is the best and only plan will be lost on the closed minded kiwi knocker when it doesnt......

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#408211 23-Nov-2010 14:18

corksta: Ok so let's take this stupid argument and break it down a bit.

A few "heroes" go in to save 29 people, defying all the advice to the contrary from the world's experts who are at the site. What happens if those people don't return or communication is lost? Do we send in more heroes to save those people as well as the miners? What happens if it repeats? At what point do we stop sending people in?

Simple. The heroes set off another explosion and are all killed. The mine is sealed off and the bodies are never recovered.

This has happened before which is why they are being careful about the gas levels before going in.

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#408261 23-Nov-2010 14:42

Great post SpookyAwol. We all want the best outcome but sending in people just to be seen to be doing something is never going to end well.

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#408464 23-Nov-2010 18:49

Also remember people, this wasn't a shaped or designed charge, it was an explosion of free gases which will have gone in both directions with relatively equal force. I said in an earlier post the length and full direction of the explosion is unknown - another point I should have made is the location of the seat of the explosion is also unknown.

With the oral evidence already presented by the survivors, it we had a good indication this was a long way into the mine. With the release of the CCTV today we can see it was a huge explosion which has generated a vast volume of gas and heat. Being a non-directional explosion in a confined space, it's likely (as I've already said) just as much material has gone the other way.

Think about the massive damage to the ventilation shaft that's been shown a lot on the TV too, as well as the scorching of trees and bush some distance from it. The ventilation system suffered critical damage, further limiting survivability. It was always a grim situation, from the very moment it happened, the CCTV just released shows how grim.

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