To hybrid, or not to hybrid, that's the question?!

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#591030 6-Mar-2012 08:41

What is the service interval on modern diesels? I gave up on them for my SUV's . My petrol SUV has a service interval of 15,000KM's on the last diesel I had, 2003 Prado the service interval was 5,000KM's. That coupled with the Road user charges, extra Registration cost, oil cost, purchase cost premium over petrol power equivalent etc etc the saving was minimal if any.

grant_k

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#591049 6-Mar-2012 09:20

KiwiNZ: What is the service interval on modern diesels? I gave up on them for my SUV's . My petrol SUV has a service interval of 15,000KM's on the last diesel I had, 2003 Prado the service interval was 5,000KM's. That coupled with the Road user charges, extra Registration cost, oil cost, purchase cost premium over petrol power equivalent etc etc the saving was minimal if any.

Service Interval on my VW Golf is 15,000km also.

Extra registration cost is about $120, extra oil cost is $20 to $40 once per year.

I have done the calculations many times over, including RUCs + extra rego cost, and no matter which way I look at it, a Diesel vehicle comes out at around 10 to 20% cheaper than a comparable petrol vehicle, depending on how many km you drive per year. The more km per year, the cheaper it works out as the extra rego is distributed across more km.

timmmay

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#591097 6-Mar-2012 10:27

Why aren't there any hybrids with diesel fuel?

I like the idea of a plug in electric vehicle for running around town, then renting a bigger car for occasional trips out of town. That probably wouldn't suit everyone though.

grant_k

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#591122 6-Mar-2012 11:16

timmmay: Why aren't there any hybrids with diesel fuel?

I suspect because of the extra battery current required to start a Diesel engine. Much higher compression means much higher load on the starter motor, each time that the Diesel engine kicks in. One time the battery in our ute failed, just as we were leaving a vehicle ferry. Several other vehicles tried to help us with a jump start, but the jumper leads started smoking, even though they were pretty heavy ones. It wasn't until we got towed to a bus workshop, that they were able to get us started. That made me realise how much extra battery current is required to start a Diesel engine vs. Petrol. The 4L Petrol V6 in our current Hilux is far less demanding than the 3L Diesel was.

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#591129 6-Mar-2012 11:29

grant_k:
Service Interval on my VW Golf is 15,000km also.

Extra registration cost is about $120, extra oil cost is $20 to $40 once per year.

I have done the calculations many times over, including RUCs + extra rego cost, and no matter which way I look at it, a Diesel vehicle comes out at around 10 to 20% cheaper than a comparable petrol vehicle, depending on how many km you drive per year. The more km per year, the cheaper it works out as the extra rego is distributed across more km.

What about repairs? Have you had any? Personally when I was looking at which to get I found it telling that if you look at the AA mechanical cover it is $499 for a normal petrol car, $699 for a diesel (excluding European), hybrid or $799 for any European car. I had also been warned by some people I know that have diesels that they can be costly to repair.

Edit: sorry meant to include a link.
http://www.aa.co.nz/assets/insurance/car-insurance/aambirates.pdf

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grant_k

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#591159 6-Mar-2012 12:02

Nety:
grant_k:
Service Interval on my VW Golf is 15,000km also.

Extra registration cost is about $120, extra oil cost is $20 to $40 once per year.

I have done the calculations many times over, including RUCs + extra rego cost, and no matter which way I look at it, a Diesel vehicle comes out at around 10 to 20% cheaper than a comparable petrol vehicle, depending on how many km you drive per year. The more km per year, the cheaper it works out as the extra rego is distributed across more km.

What about repairs? Have you had any? Personally when I was looking at which to get I found it telling that if you look at the AA mechanical cover it is $499 for a normal petrol car, $699 for a diesel (excluding European), hybrid or $799 for any European car. I had also been warned by some people I know that have diesels that they can be costly to repair.

Edit: sorry meant to include a link.
http://www.aa.co.nz/assets/insurance/car-insurance/aambirates.pdf

One Diesel vehicle we had (Hilux Ute) was bought as an ex-demonstrator at one year old (kept until 5 years old), and the VW Golf was bought brand new at about this time last year. Before buying the Golf, I talked to our mechanic and he said:

"If you're going to buy a European car, don't buy an old one as parts are very expensive".

Neither of those vehicles have needed any repairs, and for most of the time we owned the ute, it was covered by the new vehicle warranty. We are in the fortunate position of being able to afford new or near-new vehicles, which does change the picture considerably.

For someone faced with buying an older vehicle, I would avoid the Europeans, and I would avoid Diesel engines as well. I've heard some horror stories of very costly repairs on old Mitsi Pajeros and the like.

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#591198 6-Mar-2012 12:40

Yeah buying new would change things some what. Unfortunately we were limited by budget to around 2008.

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#591201 6-Mar-2012 12:41

Interesting discussions guys.

While diesel powered cars sound like a viable option, there just aren't enough of these around under $35k (brand new).

I like the thought of being able to drive close to 850-900kms on a 50L tank, that's why I am favouring a hybrid.

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#591208 6-Mar-2012 12:49

What sort if driving do you do? AFAIK If you do long distance then hybrids start to struggle as there is not enough stop start to keep energy in the battery. I think that is one of the reasons you see taxi's that are hybrids as they do a lot of stop start driving around town where the hybrids work best.

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#591253 6-Mar-2012 13:55

Nety: What sort if driving do you do? AFAIK If you do long distance then hybrids start to struggle as there is not enough stop start to keep energy in the battery. I think that is one of the reasons you see taxi's that are hybrids as they do a lot of stop start driving around town where the hybrids work best.

I don't do a lot of long distance driving. Mostly city driving. Even on road trips around the North Island, there are enough bends and tight corners to make you brake more often than not. If I were to drive in the South Island then that would be a different scenario - long straight roads.

Mattnzl

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#591261 6-Mar-2012 14:11

grant_k:
timmmay: Why aren't there any hybrids with diesel fuel?

I suspect because of the extra battery current required to start a Diesel engine.

This is definately not the reason - a hybrid has a massive 50kw 500volt "starter motor"! (the electric drive motor starts the petrol motor, at least in the prius setup anyway. No weany 12v starter

)

Edit: agree though, a diesel hybrid would be a serious economobile

skyplonk

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#591272 6-Mar-2012 14:24

heavenlywild: Interesting discussions guys.

While diesel powered cars sound like a viable option, there just aren't enough of these around under $35k (brand new).

I like the thought of being able to drive close to 850-900kms on a 50L tank, that's why I am favouring a hybrid.

Sounds to me like you have made your mind up.

Anyway, having a quick look I think you would find more new turbo diesel cars than hybrids for $35k~ new.

Also you could also get 800kms+ from 50l in a turbo diesel.

Jaxson

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#592118 8-Mar-2012 08:29

I just spent the last 2 days driving a Prius.
It was actually good as a car.
Handled motorway driving with ease.
Around town it tries to start in battery mode so seems sluggish off the line, but at all times you can push a bit harder on the accelerator pedal and the petrol kicks in.
Boot space is about half - 2/3rd of a normal car, but still big enough.
Lots of electrical interlocks, but much like any new car really. ie can't start without foot on brake etc.
Battery regenerates on coasting, not necessarily on breaking, so not a full blown KERS system etc yet!

Mains charge capable.
I'm not convinced that electrical supply costs are less than petrol just yet, so I'd need to crunch some numbers on that.
Car makes a lot of electrical squeals if you're just coasting around between lights. Nothing you'd hear with the radio on etc through.
Switches between power modes very seamlessly, the petrol motor is always on tap if and when you need it.
I'd have to crunch some numbers on whether the additional weight of the electrical system and battery storage outweighs the negatives of car handling and economy, but certainly being able to recover energy that would be lost (down hill for example) is appealing. The car is complete and viable now though.

Bio diesel tends to be clearing farmland of food crops for fuel crops. I don't know it's safe to assume that's a real legitimate 'eco' fuel alternative just yet.

So, all in all. I think they are here and now as a viable car mainstream alternative if that's what you're after.

rphenix

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#592149 8-Mar-2012 09:21

timmmay: Why aren't there any hybrids with diesel fuel?

There is. Citroen have a diesel hybrid (DS5) available in NZ. It looks nice.

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#592532 8-Mar-2012 20:58

heavenlywild:
Nety: What sort if driving do you do? AFAIK If you do long distance then hybrids start to struggle as there is not enough stop start to keep energy in the battery. I think that is one of the reasons you see taxi's that are hybrids as they do a lot of stop start driving around town where the hybrids work best.

I don't do a lot of long distance driving. Mostly city driving. Even on road trips around the North Island, there are enough bends and tight corners to make you brake more often than not. If I were to drive in the South Island then that would be a different scenario - long straight roads.

I think taxis are moving to Camry hybrids instead of Prius so maybe the high maintenance is just a prius problem, but Transit might have to put up power prices again if everyone starts overloading the national gridat peak times (ie when people get home from work).

Would have saved a bit of petrol if i had the stop/start recovery on the motorway today!

Time to find a new industry!

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