To hybrid, or not to hybrid, that's the question?!

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heavenlywild

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Topic # 98712 5-Mar-2012 09:28

So if you were to buy a brand new car, would you spend an extra, say 25%, on a hybrid, over a petrol engine?

Considering the cost of petrol can only go up, what are your thoughts?

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Reply # 590448 5-Mar-2012 09:56

If I was going brand new I would get a turbo diesel. Not sure if I could face the embarrassment of driving a hyrbrid. The eco-worriers might get the wrong idea! Haha

Seriously tho, some of the new turbo diesel vehicles have a cheaper running cost and better performance than a hyrbrid, and not to mention less maintenance costs in the future.

Even some new turbo petrol engines now have amazing fuel economy.

geekiegeek

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Reply # 590449 5-Mar-2012 09:56

Turbo diesel. Audi A3 has a 2.0 ltr engine 5 litres/100km.

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crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 590452 5-Mar-2012 10:00

One thing to consider when deciding about buying a hybrid is what happens to the battery when it no longer works.

This isn't a big issue yet but it will become one, both for owners and the environment.

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SaltyNZ

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Reply # 590463 5-Mar-2012 10:22

skyplonk: If I was going brand new I would get a turbo diesel. Not sure if I could face the embarrassment of driving a hyrbrid. The eco-worriers might get the wrong idea! Haha

Seriously tho, some of the new turbo diesel vehicles have a cheaper running cost and better performance than a hyrbrid, and not to mention less maintenance costs in the future.

Even some new turbo petrol engines now have amazing fuel economy.

+1

New eco-diesels are going south of 4L/100km for small car engines.

Long term I think the hybrid represents the worst of both worlds: batteries that wear out, an internal combustion engine that still requires all the expensive maintenance of a normal one, and a more complex drive train to cope with two prime movers.

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Reply # 590464 5-Mar-2012 10:23

The replacement cost on batteries isnt pretty - when hybrids started showing up in NZ ont he 2nd hand market, a lot of people grabbed them thinking "wow, theyre cheap cars" but found the batteries only lasted another year and cost a fortune to replace. And battery prices have gone up hell of a lot over the years... had to replace my father car battery this weekend, $142 - I remember paying $70 for similar sized battery...altho that was about 10 years ago ;)

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Jaxson

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Reply # 590492 5-Mar-2012 10:58

crackrdbycracku: One thing to consider when deciding about buying a hybrid is what happens to the battery when it no longer works.

This isn't a big issue yet but it will become one, both for owners and the environment.

+1

Where is that lot going to go, ~ landfill?

And when we all 'charge' our cars by electricity, there's a good chance a coal fired station has been fired up to cope with the increased demand.

Still, the KERS concept is a good one, braking wastes a lot of energy. I don't know, you'd have to be very clear why you're buying and paying more for a hybrid, and then confirming you're satisfying those reasons in reality.

grant_k

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Reply # 590502 5-Mar-2012 11:08

geekiegeek: Turbo diesel. Audi A3 has a 2.0 ltr engine 5 litres/100km.

+1

VW Golf 2.0L Diesel is also 5L/100km. Probably the same engine as Audi A3 I suspect.

Best mileage from 55 Litre tank: 1020km
Worst mileage from 55 Litre tank: 850km

There are very few petrol-engined cars that can match those figures.

heavenlywild

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Reply # 590508 5-Mar-2012 11:13

Interesting replies.

Battery wise, it currently costs around $750 to replace. As you would expect the prices will continue to drop over the next few years.

I am guessing the resale value would be better for a hybrid in 5-7 years time than your standard petrol.

grant_k

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Reply # 590520 5-Mar-2012 11:20

heavenlywild: Interesting replies.

Battery wise, it currently costs around $750 to replace. As you would expect the prices will continue to drop over the next few years.

I am guessing the resale value would be better for a hybrid in 5-7 years time than your standard petrol.

5 - 7 years is a long time to see into the future at the rate these technologies are developing. My money would be on all-electric cars by then i.e. plug-in rechargeables.

There is no doubt that batteries will get cheaper and better, so I see the current hybrid approach as being a stop-gap solution. When a car gets to 5 or 7 years old, the resale value is determined by what is likely to go wrong with it, as well as whatever may be wrong at the time of sale. Given the added complexity of a hybrid, as well as the need to replace the batteries at some point, I would not hold out for much hope of increased resale value after 5 or 7 years.

heavenlywild

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Reply # 590524 5-Mar-2012 11:22

^I see your point. I guess I am betting that the price of petrol will be over $2.50 per litre in less than 5 years' time. In that case, the savings of petrol would be significant enough to pay the extra premium.

cyril7

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Reply # 590525 5-Mar-2012 11:23

Hi, have you read the lemon and dogs comments on Hybrids, basically according to him they dont provide the economy they claim

http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/hybrids

Having owned a turbo diesel and driven a few late model Euro turbo Diesel I would have to agree, they have a lot more going for them than a Hybrid, and as others have pointed out, whats with the styling are the manufactures trying to tell us something about the type of folk these things appeal too?

Cyril

n4

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Reply # 590526 5-Mar-2012 11:24

SaltyNZ:
skyplonk: If I was going brand new I would get a turbo diesel. Not sure if I could face the embarrassment of driving a hyrbrid. The eco-worriers might get the wrong idea! Haha

Seriously tho, some of the new turbo diesel vehicles have a cheaper running cost and better performance than a hyrbrid, and not to mention less maintenance costs in the future.

Even some new turbo petrol engines now have amazing fuel economy.

+1

New eco-diesels are going south of 4L/100km for small car engines.

Long term I think the hybrid represents the worst of both worlds: batteries that wear out, an internal combustion engine that still requires all the expensive maintenance of a normal one, and a more complex drive train to cope with two prime movers.

Actually I believe the drive train of a hybrid is usually simpler and cheaper to maintain than a normal drive train. And the petrol engine needs less maintenance because it does less stop/start work and more 'highway' work, while the electric engine needs 'no' maintenance. Battery replacement is a real cost but likely to decrease. Also don't forget road taxes on diesels.

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jaymz

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Reply # 590552 5-Mar-2012 11:51

If it was me i would go for a diesel engine, and the reason for that is this:

Oil companies and car companies know that there will one day be no more oil to mine from the ground.
Huge advances are being made in producing bio fuels that can be used in the current vehicle infrastructure.

It is simple economy, what would cost more? changing the entire infrastruction from fuel based to an electrical system, or simply put that money into producing a fuel that can be used in the current infrastructure.

n4

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Reply # 590558 5-Mar-2012 11:54

jaymz: If it was me i would go for a diesel engine, and the reason for that is this:

Oil companies and car companies know that there will one day be no more oil to mine from the ground.
Huge advances are being made in producing bio fuels that can be used in the current vehicle infrastructure.

It is simple economy, what would cost more? changing the entire infrastruction from fuel based to an electrical system, or simply put that money into producing a fuel that can be used in the current infrastructure.

Interesting angle, I guess it depends on how likely they are to find an alternative fuel. Seems a bit risky to me, bio fuels don't seem that promising as a mass solution to the problem.

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jaymz

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Reply # 590565 5-Mar-2012 11:59

n4:
Interesting angle, I guess it depends on how likely they are to find an alternative fuel. Seems a bit risky to me, bio fuels don't seem that promising as a mass solution to the problem.

At this stage, every alternative fuel/transport option carries it's own risks. I guess it will be a wait and see game, kinda like when blu-ray and hd-dvd first came out, there was a period where no-one really knew which one would come out on top and become the standard.

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