School costs

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chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2164856 21-Jan-2019 16:28

networkn:

Donations aren't mandatory, your child will not be denied time in a classroom as a result of you not paying for your donation.

All schools I have been to, and the ones my kids have attended and my siblings kids, the donation contributes to the "extras". If your school handles that differently, so be it.

What do you think happens to the $x00 donation you make? You understand it's used to educate your kids, not so that the Principal can pay for a holiday to the Bahamas, or so the PM can buy herself a nice new car? You do get that right?

No really? I thought it went towards the Maseratti the principal was driving... again, TOTALLY missing my point and you're not looking at the big picture. Yes again, I'm not against more money towards education, I simply believe that:

1. School donations should NOT exist (it's incidentally on Labour's agenda to replace donations with govt payment of $150 per student)

2. It's just another TAX with more bureaucratic implications eg: you can apply for a tax credit which is just more paperwork for everyone (you, IRD etc)

So why not do away with donations and just increase spending on education? Why bother with another totally irrelevant transaction? Because presently IT IS BIG MONEY for affluent schools. Auckland Grammar in 2016 for example received $2.88 million in donations. Wellington's Island bay primary received almost half a million for 450 students - over $1k per student. So now these public schools that are gaining a fairly hefty advantage monetary wise for discretionary spending on school activities with this "donation" money.

Now do you think a decile 1 or 2 school will receive similar donations? Absolutely not. So do you think it's fair that the kids born and going to schools in lower socio-economic areas miss out on similar extra curricular activities that "wealthier" schools get primarily through the donation scheme? I didn't think so.

And yes, I'm a staunch National voter, yet I'm realistic about the needs of our kids all getting a fair start at life. It starts with early education - so ditch the donations, and make it a fair playing field.

Lots to address here and getting off topic, however, without these donations you go back to my earlier points, what other services do you want the Government to cut to cover the $x00 per kid that you donate now multiplied by however many kids do or don't pay? Healthcare? Roads? Or is there a magic tree of money you know about that the rest of us apparently are oblivious to? Of course, if you would prefer a tax increase......

Yep, a tax increase would be perfectly fine. If it means money going towards better education, better healthcare, better public services then I'm not against it. While I don't subscribe to "punishing" the wealthy or those who have worked hard to get where they are at via massive tax increases, a mere 1% tax increase in the higher income bracket will generate tens if not hundreds of millions in extra revenue. While I'm in that bracket myself - it's not going to be enough to significantly hurt my back pocket or change my lifestyle.

gbwelly

1243 posts

Uber Geek

#2164859 21-Jan-2019 16:33

networkn:

We are really struggling to find good quality shoes for my son who seems to wear through them every few months. We used to buy from No1 shoes but after replacing 6 pairs in 8 weeks, we abandoned that. We went to a name brand shoe and at least we got 3 months out of them.

The kids shoes at No1 and the warehouse, in my experience wouldn't fit any manafacturing standard I could think to devise. My son is an active kid, but nowhere near as much as others who are more sporty. I hate to think what it would cost.

Have you tried the NZ brand McKinlays?

https://mckinlays.co.nz/

Over a hundy a pair, but we only replace them when they're outgrown. We too tried No1 and Warehouse, they were pathetic and wouldn't last a month.

yitz

2080 posts

Uber Geek

#2164892 21-Jan-2019 17:02

chimera: Now do you think a decile 1 or 2 school will receive similar donations? Absolutely not. So do you think it's fair that the kids born and going to schools in lower socio-economic areas miss out on similar extra curricular activities that "wealthier" schools get primarily through the donation scheme? I didn't think so.

Actually there is a decile funding component so low decile schools should be doing okay there and then there is the $150 no donations scheme which they will most likely have joined as they are unable to solicit that level of donation anyway. It is the mid to high decile schools that receive average to less than average decile funding and have to turn to parents for donations to make up the difference.

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2164899 21-Jan-2019 17:17

yitz:

chimera: Now do you think a decile 1 or 2 school will receive similar donations? Absolutely not. So do you think it's fair that the kids born and going to schools in lower socio-economic areas miss out on similar extra curricular activities that "wealthier" schools get primarily through the donation scheme? I didn't think so.

Actually there is a decile funding component so low decile schools should be doing okay there and then there is the $150 no donations scheme which they will most likely have joined as they are unable to solicit that level of donation anyway. It is the mid to high decile schools that receive average to less than average decile funding and have to turn to parents for donations to make up the difference.

Not quite, but you can make up your own mind from this article I just found, posted 4 days ago...

"About $140 million was donated to New Zealand schools in 2017 - and more than half of that went to just 10 per cent of schools."

"The money received by higher decile schools "far and away outstripped" the money available to lower decile schools, he said – despite a decile funding system that was meant to level the playing field."

"A donation was, by definition, voluntary. However, Post-Primary Teachers' Association (PPTA) president Jack Boyle said there were many schools where it "isn't voluntary, nor is it a donation. It's a compulsory fee". There were instances of students being banned from the school ball or told they couldn't get their yearbook when parents didn't pay, he said. The only solution to the inequity created by the donation system was to fund education properly, he said."

That is outright WRONG in a supposedly "free education" system.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/109937537/rich-school-poor-school-top-schools-get-millions-in-donations-while-others-get-0

Fred99

13684 posts

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#2164932 21-Jan-2019 17:58

networkn:

Fred99:

Apart from the fund-raising aspect, I think most of the reason for school uniforms is based on notions of breaking the spirit/forcing conformity and a lame attempt by paranoid adults to suppress the impact of adolescent hormones.

LOL WHAT!?

Seriously - school uniforms are designed to be as un-sexy as possible. The funny underwear Mormons are encouraged to wear is worse.

KiwiSurfer

1456 posts

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#2164937 21-Jan-2019 18:12

Disclaimer: Teacher who has worked for and at a number of schools in Auckland, but with no involvement with any decisions regarding uniforms. Previous BOT member of a school many years ago, but no involvement with decisions regarding uniforms. Not speaking on behalf of any school including my employer and the school I am currently based at.

I'm 50:50 about uniforms. I can see good arguments against and good arguments for. As a student school many years ago I remember students having to stay after school for wearing socks a shade lighter or darker than the regulations which was IMHO exteremly OTT and fills my 50% side against having uniforms. However I can see arguments for all students having the same clothing to make life easier for parents (who then don't have to deal with the hassle of kids wanting the latest trendy clothes etc) which fills my other 50%.

I think a good middle ground could be for the school to mandate that all students wear a school standard shirt/t-shirt that is reasonably priced (e.g. on par with what you would pay for a good shirt/t-shirt at the Warehouse etc). For other clothing (pants, hats, shoes, etc) there can be a reasonable standard applied to their own choice of clothing (e.g. just need covered shoes, plain clothes e.g. no vulgar language/images/etc and so on). Discretions by the school can also be used.

Generally I at the schools I have worked with find school staff don't make a big fuss if there is a good reason and/or few/no history of regular violations and/or the violation is fairly minor in the greater scheme of things. Otherwise generally they try and work with the student and/or family to work it out. I don't think schools try and make life difficult for parents.

From what I'm reading it seems the BOT make the decisions. Perhaps if your local school has a unfirm policy you aren't keen on, have a chat with other parents. If you find yourself in agreement with other parents see if you can engage the BOT with support of other parents.

Coil

6614 posts

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#2165087 22-Jan-2019 07:19

As a student school many years ago I remember students having to stay after school for wearing socks a shade lighter or darker than the regulations which was IMHO exteremly OTT and fills my 50% side against having uniforms.

I can relate this back to a dean who used to go around with his two middle fingers curling back yelling "SOCKS UP BOYS" And if ya didn't pull those socks up you'd be in for it. The other one was them telling us to stop standing on the backs of our roman sandals. (I just cut the backs off)

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jonathan18

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#2165178 22-Jan-2019 09:50

The intermediate my son starts at this year was one of the first to trial getting rid of school fees last year, (as covered in this article), something that has apparently worked well enough that it's in place for this year. While they did ask on the enrolment form whether we wanted to make a donation, there was none of the sense of compulsion that we get from our primary school. I recall reading in one article that there wasn't much impact on the school's overall budget when introduced the policy, as they no longer had to employ an additional staff member to chase up the money!

Plus, I found out last week, the school provides all necessary stationery, so a difference of up to $330 a year per student between the two schools (primary = $80 activity fee, $200 'donation', plus stationery).

That said, the cost of uniform is additional for the intermediate, but then again they've made the sensible decision of using that brand sold at The Warehouse (thought still branded for the school); even still, that's a few hundred dollars which I'm sure is a struggle for some families (in this case it's a decile 6 school).

And then there's the cost of BYOD; while I get there'll be devices at school for those who don't bring their own, that system usually works as a backstop, and relies on most bringing their own! As I mentioned on another thread, my kids' primary uses iPads, the intermediate Chromebooks or Macbooks, and the secondary school Windows laptops or Macbooks; given we don't have the money for a MacBook, it'll mean having two buy yet another new device in two years' time.

MileHighKiwi

782 posts

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#2167582 25-Jan-2019 19:40

Interesting thread. I remember school being expensive for my parents in the 80s and 90s, its ten times worse now with devices. Our kids start school next year, time to increase the education savings!

Mark

1653 posts

Uber Geek

#2167642 25-Jan-2019 20:34

Local school my kids went to (and are going back to) is about $50 per term .. for all kids in the family, could have 10 kids and pay $50 total. No uniform either and about the only fundraising they do is the fireworks display which is an epic affair pulling in nearly everyone from the surrounding area so makes them a good bit of cash for the year.

And nope it's not a cr@ppy school, it's a rural school that is really good at putting the kids first.

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