@networkn disagreeing and debating as adults is fine and important, we can all learn from it. 

I sincerely hope that Pablo Matera accepts what has happened realise that he has embarrassed his country, his sport, his team mates, his family and himself. I hope he learns from this and continues to make personal growth and improvements and genuinely changes his views. He can have a positive outcome and can come back and be a better person. 

Handsomedan:

Holding someone responsible for a view they expressed a long time ago doesn't sit well with me. Not at all.

Technofreak:

Handle9:

This is a fairly silly point.

It's analogous to a CEO resigning after being found out to be guilty of historical sexual harassment. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean that it doesn't have present day consequences.

 

I beg to differ. Your analogy is flawed. These tweets were public knowledge 9 years ago which is very unlike something historical that hasn't been public knowledge. 

networkn:

Handle9:

All actions have consequences, positive and negative. Is he sorry for the tweets or sorry he got caught? I don't know and I have no idea about the sincererity of his apology. He needs to bear the consequences in the same way Israel Folau or any other public figure does.

There is a massive difference between was IF did and what Matera said. One was a current issue for which the perpetrator wasn't sorry and then did it again months later.

To my knowledge, Matera hasn't done anything similar recently, denounced his position and has given a seemingly heartfelt apology.

My understanding is, this was also known previously and resurfaced.

 

tdgeek:

I think Matera has lost his captaincy and been suspended one game?  I don't think that a few days will cause him to be redeemed and rehabilitated and be seen as has taken action. I would assume that the 9 years prior to the incident which I assume has been racism free, is testament to his redemption and rehabilitation. Which is the key point if we wish to make progress.  

Handle9:

tdgeek:

 

I think Matera has lost his captaincy and been suspended one game?  I don't think that a few days will cause him to be redeemed and rehabilitated and be seen as has taken action. I would assume that the 9 years prior to the incident which I assume has been racism free, is testament to his redemption and rehabilitation. Which is the key point if we wish to make progress.  

 

No he is stood down pending a disciplinary process.

Thanks for the clarification.

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

To what end does his punishment serve? It was 9 years ago, he is already sorry, he no longer holds these views and he can do far more with what he has learned in the position he holds, setting an example to others that big tough guys can change their views and admit their mistakes and that racism isn't an accepted view. Punishment is (should be)  about rehabilitation, he seems already rehabilitated.

 

 

Agree. We also have prisons for various offenses, once you have done your time you can start over, rehabilitated hopefully. Life sentences aren't the sentence for every mistake we all make.

 

Except every job you apply for has a question on the application about your criminal history. Any time you want to travel, likewise.

So you will be judged, over and over again. Only crimes that aren't punishable by prison are hidden after seven years.

My feeling is that we can discount stupid/racist/whatever comments when the author has completely countered the harm that they do. If he doesn't want to do this, he doesn't see the harm, or doesn't care. In which case, some punishment is appropriate.

If Matera says "What can I do to make this right?" and then goes ahead and does it, then all power to him.

But I guess that there will always be people who say that it wasn't enough.

Handle9:

 

 

 

Have you got a reference for this being known previously?

The terms "resurfaced" and "prior controvesy" in multiple articles.

MikeB4:

 

Stating he no longer holds the opinions does not prove he no longer holds these opinions.

 

Just so I understand this correctly.... you're saying you cant prove what he said is actually what he thinks ?

frankv:

 

My feeling is that we can discount stupid/racist/whatever comments when the author has completely countered the harm that they do. If he doesn't want to do this, he doesn't see the harm, or doesn't care. In which case, some punishment is appropriate.

 

If Matera says "What can I do to make this right?" and then goes ahead and does it, then all power to him.

 

But I guess that there will always be people who say that it wasn't enough.

 

 

 

Or the people for whom no matter what he does it's not enough.

How do you measure harm done in something like this? I spent a number of years of my late 10's and early teens in a prodominately Maori community, I was a transluscent white kid, and was given lots of stick, including some unprintable pretty racist terms and honestly,

I could really have cared less. I don't consider it harmed me personally, but there are some people for whom that could have been harmful. It was considered pretty "normal" in my community, though I never made similar comments back as I felt that was wrong. There were also kids who in a group would be racist or pleasant (peer pressure?), but on their own showed no signs of that. In adults, alcohol was often a factor. Is it OK? Nope, never. I am scarred for life, nope.

People say stupid things when they're kids, usually to try to impress their peer group. He was only 18-20 when he wrote these tweets.

I did read some of the tweets, and they were pretty bad, but if you have to go back 7-9 years to find them I'd argue that it's unlikely to be representative of who he is now. Was it acceptable? No. But should an adult be retrospectively punished for stupid things they said when they were (essentially) still just a kid? I don't think that should be the default position. 

I said some bloody stupid things in my youth trying to be "cool" that I don't believe truly reflected who I was at the time - and certainly don't reflect who I am now.

Of course it's possible he currently holds racist beliefs, but is just smart enough now to not express them, but without any supportive evidence I thinks it's unfair to make that assumption.

I wish I had more than 1 +1 to give your comment @paul1977 that's pretty much how I feel as well.

martyyn:

 

MikeB4:

 

Stating he no longer holds the opinions does not prove he no longer holds these opinions.

 

 

Just so I understand this correctly.... you're saying you cant prove what he said is actually what he thinks ?

 

So cherry picking one segment of my post taking it out of context to suit your narrative.