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Scott3
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  #2757609 9-Aug-2021 23:01
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Linuxluver:

 

Coal is running at just under 60% of capacity. 

 

Geothermal is just over 90% of capacity. 

 

Gas is at 67% of capacity. 

 

Power from the South Island is running at 41% of capacity....... 

 

(Source: Electricity Map app). 

 

I wonder where the distribution bottlenecks are? We appear to have spare capacity. 

 

I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls.....so no problem if they decide to black out our area. Ever since power generation  moved to a commercial, for-profit footing, it's made very good sense to generate as much of your own power as you can and store some of it. The big operators just aren't reliable at peak times like long cold days in mid winter...... 

 

 

As per one of my other responses, the capacities you see are nameplate capacities, not what is available for dispatch.

 

Coal: One of the three units at huntly appears to have been offline for some time, I assume due to urgent maintenance / repair.

 

Gas: big production issues with gas at the moment - can't run all the gas stuff at the same time without running the pipes out of pressure.

 

Geothermal never seems to be quite at 100%. I think it is due to variability in brine temperatures and flow rates from wells and the likes

 

Somebody else mentioned capacity on the HVDC link may have been reduced due to maintenance.

 

 

 

"The big operators just aren't reliable at peak times like long cold days in mid winter...... "

 

This is the first time we have had this situation that I can recall in the last 15 years, where we have had to have rolling blackouts that were not the result of equipment failure. Suspect for most of NZ the risk of power cuts comes from issues in the local distribution networks (like trees falling on power-lines), rather than an systemic issue with the for profit nature of the power grid.

 

Of course there are issues with the current power market, and I think that we should have just stuck with the NZ electricity board.


dantheperson
174 posts

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  #2757615 10-Aug-2021 00:01
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Why on earth haven't they fired up the Whirinaki diesel plant?


dantheperson
174 posts

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  #2757616 10-Aug-2021 00:06
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graph on em6live shows Whirinaki was running.  Maybe it was already shutdown when graphs at 20:50 were taken.


mattwnz
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  #2757617 10-Aug-2021 00:19
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dantheperson:

 

Why on earth haven't they fired up the Whirinaki diesel plant?

 

 

 

 

Price?

 

 

 

Hope this isn't going to become the new normal in North Korea* when we need heating or cooling on the hotter and colder days of the year. Funnily enough some of the power retailers were complaining on the 6pm news on how broken the whole power system is. I guess this takes people mind off the housing crisis. Another crisis , eg a Electricity generation crisis will be a distraction from housing, which will probably help the government.

 

Glad we had a couple of woodburners installed. We are used to lots of power outages being in a semi rural area.

 

 

 

*New Zealand.


tdgeek
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  #2757651 10-Aug-2021 07:34
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mattwnz:

 

Hope this isn't going to become the new normal in North Korea* when we need heating or cooling on the hotter and colder days of the year. Funnily enough some of the power retailers were complaining on the 6pm news on how broken the whole power system is. I guess this takes people mind off the housing crisis. Another crisis , eg a Electricity generation crisis will be a distraction from housing, which will probably help the government.

 

Glad we had a couple of woodburners installed. We are used to lots of power outages being in a semi rural area.

 

 

 

*New Zealand.

 

 

It will become the new normal in the future as weather events continue to get out of control. But the last time there was a generation emergency was 10 years ago, and yesterday was just up to 2 hours for a few areas, so I don't see it as a massive fail. They could have put warnings on radio and TV to reduce power or it may get cut off. If the SI was within peak load, why wasn't more power sent north? No doubt its more complex than that. Short term if Tiwai is made available, that should help a lot with more coverage/backup. IIRC they consume about 10% or a bit more of NZ consumption


nzkiwiman
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  #2757664 10-Aug-2021 08:16
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Another ignorant South Islander here ... didn't know there was a problem last night. 

 

Had the heat pump going in the lounge, a small fan heater in the bedroom and I charged the EV from 9.15pm


Dingbatt
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  #2757702 10-Aug-2021 09:10
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Linuxluver:

 

I have 2 Tesla Powerwalls.....

 



 

I thought TPWs needed a mains input to operate. Is that not the case anymore?

 

 

 

The new F150 Lightning can power a house (according to the Ford blurb). So when are we getting them here?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Mahon
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  #2757704 10-Aug-2021 09:11
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..and encouragement to EV's will help even more?


zenourn
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  #2757705 10-Aug-2021 09:12
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Another Grid Emergency Notice this morning, this time asking for generators to Increase Energy Offers. Spot price reached $100/kWh, not quite as bad as the $300/kWh that it got to yesterday.

 

I see two main contributing factors:

 

- There has been a strong push to move from fossil-fuel based heating methods (wood, coal, gas) to electric heating options (primarily heat pumps). This has the side effect that when you have a nation-wide cold front it greatly increases electricity demand, especially as heat pumps are less efficient when temps get lower.

 

- There has been reduced investment into generation capacity due to the threat of Tiwai Point Smelter closing down and having a a huge amount of electricity suddenly available (ignoring the fact that it would be very hard to get where needed). This means that there is now not much excess generation capacity in the network.

 

Combine the lower temps we have experienced over the last two days with a few generation-limiting factors (not much wind, particular units down for maintenance, limited gas supply) and you find yourself in trouble.

 

EVs aren't the cause of this and won't have a significant effect, if any, for a long time. I have two EVs and while I could get them to add 11 kW of demand during peak they are both set to charge during the small hours to the morning where there is plenty of spare capacity.


old3eyes
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  #2757706 10-Aug-2021 09:13
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Sounds like back to the future as I remember it in the 1950s.  Roll power cuts. 





Regards,

Old3eyes


Obraik
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  #2757714 10-Aug-2021 09:32
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colinuu:

 

because currently most EV owners are enthusiasts who have the knowledge and take the time to work this through. It will be a different story when EV's become main stream IMO.

 

 

Most people respond to high power bills. If it costs someone $3.50 to charge their EV on peak the same amount that it would cost to charge it for $0.90 off peak, I think most people are going to make sure they charge it off peak.

 

Of course, the current "off peak" could become the new "on peak" as EV market share increases so they may have to start adopting custom off peak billing times for groups of people to spread the charging out.





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Dingbatt
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  #2757717 10-Aug-2021 09:36
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That’s what you get for trying to be the “California” of the South Pacific, except we can’t import electricity from a neighbouring state like they do.

 

I find it ironic that “This generation’s nuclear free moment” can be solved by nuclear power.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Obraik
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  #2757719 10-Aug-2021 09:38
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Wouldn't the better comparison be Texas which has had both winter and summer power supply issues and doesn't have a backup grid to pull from?





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Dingbatt
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  #2757727 10-Aug-2021 09:46
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Obraik:

 

Wouldn't the better comparison be Texas which has had both winter and summer power supply issues and doesn't have a backup grid to pull from?

 

 

You mean Texas where the wind turbines froze in the middle of winter? Yeah, if you like.

 

Or Germany vs France.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Fred99
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  #2757728 10-Aug-2021 09:51
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zenourn:

 

EVs aren't the cause of this and won't have a significant effect, if any, for a long time. I have two EVs and while I could get them to add 11 kW of demand during peak they are both set to charge during the small hours to the morning where there is plenty of spare capacity.

 

 

It will have a significant effect in future if by then we won't or don't use thermal generation to meet peak demand, and don't invest/upgrade in zero CO2 generation.  The timeframe for phasing out ICE and switching to EV's is shorter than the timeframe from the planning stage to commissioning a large hydro project.  


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