Maoris beating their kids. What the hell happened!

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#430085 23-Jan-2011 01:06

Beavis: Really, this is a techy geek form. This is so far off topic it should be locked. But, even geeks have a life, so I will give my thoughts. This is not just a maori problem, but a New Zealand problem. But you you would have your head in the sand if you didn't realize certain cultures are worse offenders. I know of no easy answer.
Being a Saturday night And in an extremely relaxed state after my first week back at work, I will refane
from any red neck comments!

well this is in the off topic forum, so I think anything goes? lol.

scottjpalmer

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#430098 23-Jan-2011 04:22

As the first moderator to post here I want to say thanks to everyone for keeping this discussion largely relevant and "on-topic". When I came across it a few minutes ago I thought "Uh oh, here we go" but after having read through there have been many valuable opinions and points from all sides of the fence (occupation, personal experience, different races, etc).

Keep up the good work.

freitasm

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#430117 23-Jan-2011 09:16

tombrownzz:
Kaos36:
tombrownzz:
So your mum hit your ears because of some words you said? Your mother had no right to hit you just because you called her some words. If you called the police your mother would have been arrested which may have taught your mother that child abuse is wrong. Why didn't you call the police?

Are you for real? Back then if I called the police and told them my mum clipped me around the ears cause I called her a fat bitch they would probably say good on her & laugh.

My mother had every right to clip me round the ears. Im not damaged cause of it. The difference is I wasn't beaten I was smacked/clipped round the ears.

So what's the real reason you didn't call the police? Were you scared? Or did you really think the police would just laugh? Did you give your mother permission to clip you around the ears because if you didn't she had no right to do that to you. Do you want kids to go around hitting people because some other kids called them ugly? Free speech.

Stop and think that the reported event might have been thirty years ago. Back then smack wasn't a problem. There wasn't a wave of PC in the world. While it's illegal now to discipline children, that wasn't the case back then.

Also there's a distinction between "displine" and "abuse". Anyone claiming to be "disciplining" when they torture kids are clearly an unbalanced individual and would be frowned upon even back then.

wreck90

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#430135 23-Jan-2011 10:47

Take the maori stats out of the equation and I imagine NZ will look pretty good.

While child abuse is more frequent within maori families, it is wrong to blame maori culture or innocent maoris.

The problem is socio economic combined with the structure of the social welfare system. Then , gangs come into the picture too.

So , a maori family can opt out of work, go onto the dole, supplant their dole income with drug money via gang affiliations and you end up with a violent environment fueled by alcohol and drugs. Not too ideal for bringing up little kiddies.

gchiu

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#430139 23-Jan-2011 11:02

I think you'd be mistaken. Is Maori poverty so much worse than in other communities?

And a culture that honors their dead ( delegations that are sent to bring back trophy heads from overseas ) rather than the living ( where are the delegations to protest the treatment of their own kids ? ) is somewhat suspect.

gzt

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#430193 23-Jan-2011 15:02

The vast majority of people who neglect and abuse children are not strongly connected to cultural values of any kind.

gzt

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#430207 23-Jan-2011 15:53

therefore - I conclude that arguments which imply Maori culture is somehow to blame for child abuse and neglect are illegitimate.

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gchiu

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#430210 23-Jan-2011 16:00

Perhaps you might wish to provide references for your primary assertion.

In some countries overseas where women are treated as property as part of their set of culture values, murder and physical abuse are not uncommon.

matisyahu

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#430328 23-Jan-2011 21:14

kingjj:
gchiu: Sorry, it's primarily a Maori issue. And it doesn't affect all races. Name the last asian child killed by their parents. Saying it affects all races is a way of ignoring the fact that this is issue is owned by Maori.

Bull, child abuse takes on many forms. Just because a kid doesn't die does not mean that it isn't abuse. Worst case of child abuse published recently: Polynesian parents who tortured their 9 year old daughter, are you saying that this is out of the norm for Polynesians? I've worked with many youths who have been abused or who fear abuse, and the majority of them have not been Maori/Polynesian. One case that sticks to mind was a 15 year old Asian male who was caught stealing, first thing his mum did when she entered the room was slap him so hard he fell off the seat, we than had to physically restrain the dad from doing the same. It happens to all races, it just gets treated differently by the media.

Unfortunately there are parents who believe that they can bend their kids to their will by beating them into submission. I'm no parent (I have no kids of my own) but I do know that when my niece starts to act up, a stern but calm and assertive voice is more powerful than any smack could ever do - the problem is I find is that a large number parents did nothing for the first five years and then wonder why the kids are acting up now. If you don't put in the hard work in the first five years then you've more or less screwed them up for life - there is no back peddling and thinking you can do an all nighter to make up for five years of crappy parenting.

While we're on the topic of crappy parenting - please, if you're not going to do the hard work, don't have a child, CHOOSE not to have children. I know I'd be a horrible parent so even if I were straight and some unfortunate female chose to be my wife one of my conditions would be to never have children. Know what your capabilities are and don't over extend yourself. Simply having kids because 'well, that is tradition' or 'well, that is what everyone else does' is simply ludicrous. A child isn't like a bookshelf you can take back when you realise that it doesn't fit into the gap you had intended for it to go into.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

Ragnor

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#430376 23-Jan-2011 23:30

Our social welfare system creates a perverse incentive where people have babies that they didn't really truly want - because they effectively get paid for it.

We have is an underclass (with a high % who are Maori but plenty of other races in there too) that are simply having more babies as a lifestyle choice / meal ticket.

These babies are typically born outside of a stable nuclear family basically with whoever is going because you get more handouts when the father doesn't live with the mother/kids.

Throw in gangs, drugs and a multi-generational cycle repeating this action and the end result is somewhat predictable.

Klipspringer

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#430748 24-Jan-2011 21:40

tombrownzz:
Kaos36:
tombrownzz:
So your mum hit your ears because of some words you said? Your mother had no right to hit you just because you called her some words. If you called the police your mother would have been arrested which may have taught your mother that child abuse is wrong. Why didn't you call the police?

Are you for real? Back then if I called the police and told them my mum clipped me around the ears cause I called her a fat bitch they would probably say good on her & laugh.

My mother had every right to clip me round the ears. Im not damaged cause of it. The difference is I wasn't beaten I was smacked/clipped round the ears.

So what's the real reason you didn't call the police? Were you scared? Or did you really think the police would just laugh? Did you give your mother permission to clip you around the ears because if you didn't she had no right to do that to you. Do you want kids to go around hitting people because some other kids called them ugly? Free speech.

No are you for real? Cant believe what I am reading here.

If its against the law here in NZ to spank my child then I would rather go to jail for spanking my child than them go to jail because I never did! And that sums up everything pretty nicely.

You obviously not a parent! Asking your kid for permission for punishment LOL. Why not ask them if they would like to go and sit in the naughty corner...

The problem in this country, with binge drinking, and many more of the social problems in our youths are all due to them not being punished and being held accountable for their actions.

bazzer

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#430846 25-Jan-2011 08:36

BraaiGuy: If its against the law here in NZ to spank my child then I would rather go to jail for spanking my child than them go to jail because I never did! And that sums up everything pretty nicely.

On the other hand, I would rather not spank my child than spank them. Why would your child be going to gaol? Don't you think it's rather an extreme example? If no one spanked their kids, how many more would end up in gaol?

scottjpalmer

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#430894 25-Jan-2011 10:20

I have just hidden a post relating to the recent body found burning case. That is off topic for this thread and the reasons are speculation so let's not get into a slippery slope downwards situation.

NonprayingMantis

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#430900 25-Jan-2011 10:25

BraaiGuy:
tombrownzz:
Kaos36:
tombrownzz:
So your mum hit your ears because of some words you said? Your mother had no right to hit you just because you called her some words. If you called the police your mother would have been arrested which may have taught your mother that child abuse is wrong. Why didn't you call the police?

Are you for real? Back then if I called the police and told them my mum clipped me around the ears cause I called her a fat bitch they would probably say good on her & laugh.

My mother had every right to clip me round the ears. Im not damaged cause of it. The difference is I wasn't beaten I was smacked/clipped round the ears.

So what's the real reason you didn't call the police? Were you scared? Or did you really think the police would just laugh? Did you give your mother permission to clip you around the ears because if you didn't she had no right to do that to you. Do you want kids to go around hitting people because some other kids called them ugly? Free speech.

No are you for real? Cant believe what I am reading here.

If its against the law here in NZ to spank my child then I would rather go to jail for spanking my child than them go to jail because I never did! And that sums up everything pretty nicely.

You obviously not a parent! Asking your kid for permission for punishment LOL. Why not ask them if they would like to go and sit in the naughty corner...

The problem in this country, with binge drinking, and many more of the social problems in our youths are all due to them not being punished and being held accountable for their actions.

The children of parents who’s parents hit them are far more likely to end up in jail than the children of parents who do not hit them, and instead teach them that violence is not ok.

So from that point of view it is win-win.

You don’t go to jail for hitting your kids, and then they don’t end up in jail. You will have taught them that violence is an acceptable solution when someone does something that you don’t want them to, and so they are less likley to go out and assualt somebody.

wongtop

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#430913 25-Jan-2011 10:45

This has been a great discussion. Many people state that New Zealand is a great place to bring up kids, but the stats would suggest otherwise (child abuse, child poverty, child health, etc.)

NZ can be a great place to bring up kids, but parenting isn't always easy. As a society we all (Pakeha, Maori, Polynesian, Asian, whatever) need to lift our game if we are going to make NZ a truly great place to bring up kids.

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