Auckland Weather 27/01/23 and Cyclone Gabrielle

Forums › Off topic › Auckland Weather 27/01/23 and Cyclone Gabrielle

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#3039745 20-Feb-2023 21:58

elpenguino:
That's the thing about middle aged men, we're unremarkable and invisible. People lose sleep at night thinking about gangsters with tattoos on their faces but it's the middle aged bloke embezzling your pension you really should be worried about.

And don't forget creepy serial killers like "Miss" Jane Marple, the little old lady who racked up a body count like you wouldn't believe and always managed to come up with some fancy story that pinned it on someone else because no-one would think she could have done it.

neb

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#3039848 21-Feb-2023 00:00

ezbee:
Some video on what its been like on roads, and trying to get to isolated communities.

What's astounding in those videos, and many others that come up, is that pretty much every single one of them that shows serious destruction to property has huge piles of slash all over it. Given the enormous amount of damage that's been caused/exacerbated by this, I'm expecting a huge shakeup in the way the industry is run.

Or at least hoping for one.

Mattnzl

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#3039857 21-Feb-2023 07:24

neb:
ezbee:

Some video on what its been like on roads, and trying to get to isolated communities.

What's astounding in those videos, and many others that come up, is that pretty much every single one of them that shows serious destruction to property has huge piles of slash all over it. Given the enormous amount of damage that's been caused/exacerbated by this, I'm expecting a huge shakeup in the way the industry is run. Or at least hoping for one.

A lot of the "silt" will also be soil/clay etc. that has been washed out from clear-felled areas too :-(

GV27

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#3039866 21-Feb-2023 07:45

Wonder what the effect of an accounting change for forestry to have to provide for the restoration and clean-up of literally everything downstream would be.

Ge0rge

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#3039869 21-Feb-2023 07:57

Mattnzl:

neb:

What's astounding in those videos, and many others that come up, is that pretty much every single one of them that shows serious destruction to property has huge piles of slash all over it. Given the enormous amount of damage that's been caused/exacerbated by this, I'm expecting a huge shakeup in the way the industry is run. Or at least hoping for one.

A lot of the "silt" will also be soil/clay etc. that has been washed out from clear-felled areas too :-(

I keep reading on here by several posters that it's the fault of forestry, and yet in the majority of places I have been driving, I am seeing land that has been farmed for multiple generations - and never in forest - that has slipped. Huge swathes of grassland that have slipped, the silt then washing down stream and affecting low lying areas.

To be clear, I am not a civil engineer or a hydrologist, but I have been here since 0300 on Tuesday morning. I not saying that forestry doesn't have some part to play in some locations, however I am seeing way more areas affected that have no ties to it at all. Was Esk Valley a forestry hot-spot in 1938?

nzkc

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#3039872 21-Feb-2023 08:05

Most are blaming the forestry for the amount of slash that has washed down the rivers making the floods even more destructive. They're also blaming the industry for destabalising the hillsides as trees help strengthen the land and prevent slips - so cutting the trees down removes this.

I have also been wondering if, from the descriptions people have given about the water rising so suddenly, that the slash initially blocked or partially blocked the rivers upstream. Then a small lake built up quickly, the dam gave way and a huge torrent of water was sent down the river.

Playing devils advocate: Is it the fault of the forestry industry that we've built houses on flood plains?

Handsomedan

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#3039887 21-Feb-2023 08:55

GV27:

Wonder what the effect of an accounting change for forestry to have to provide for the restoration and clean-up of literally everything downstream would be.

In the short-term, it'd probably bankrupt the industry. It's already a high-cost, labour-intensive and equipment-heavy industry. Cleaning up after themselves and restoring any damage would be a massive undertaking and would cost a fortune.

The only places they really clean/restore are the parts pf forests where they are keen to get new trees in the ground for future harvests and I understand the ground/soil has to recover for a bit before that happens, so the debris and stumps remain for quite a while.

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blackjack17

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#3039925 21-Feb-2023 10:00

Trees also reduce the impact of water hitting the ground, slows the runoff of water into streams, holds the soil together and increases the absorption of water into the soil.

Pines forests, even when replanted don't provide much stability to the soil until after year 8 or so (from memory), as the felled trees roots rot out and the new trees roots establish. Unlike some species where the old roots become part of the newly planted trees.

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johno1234

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#3039991 21-Feb-2023 12:17

Forestry activity, especially harvest, also scrapes bare a lot of land area for roads and landing sites.

The foresters do have methods to catch the slash, such as this: https://www.nzffa.org.nz/system/assets/5934/6-4_harvest-slash_slash-traps-2-0.pdf

But I don't think it is adequate or enforced or measured.

ezbee

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#3040041 21-Feb-2023 13:36

blackjack17:

Trees also reduce the impact of water hitting the ground, slows the runoff of water into streams, holds the soil together and increases the absorption of water into the soil.

Pines forests, even when replanted don't provide much stability to the soil until after year 8 or so (from memory), as the felled trees roots rot out and the new trees roots establish. Unlike some species where the old roots become part of the newly planted trees.

Therefore, if you run a modern quick turnaround harvest cycle, you are harvesting them right when they 'might start' to contribute to stability.

Where previously harvesting with 2 or 3 times longer growth cycle.
There is chance to rotate so you have much more stable older growth sections supporting the bits you harvest.

Like rotational cropping.

How much is the Foresty industry in that area worth, compared to all the other Farming,
Dairy, Furit, Produce and Industry that might move out or not be viable otherwise?

Ge0rge

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#3040051 21-Feb-2023 14:05

1 in every 9 people here in the Bay are employed by forestry, I have been told.

Kyanar

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#3040064 21-Feb-2023 14:46

Spare a thought for USAR (urban search and rescue) teams currently combing through every square centimetre of properties with missing residents hoping not to find bodies. Such a huge task that FENZ is accompanied by teams led by the QFES and the QLD SES to get it done.

Ge0rge

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#3040066 21-Feb-2023 14:49

Kyanar:

Spare a thought for USAR (urban search and rescue) teams currently combing through every square centimetre of properties with missing residents hoping not to find bodies. Such a huge task that FENZ is accompanied by teams led by the QFES and the QLD SES to get it done.

Add the NZDF to the list of people searching too. We turned what would have taken USAR six days into an afternoon yesterday.

neb

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#3040090 21-Feb-2023 15:25

Ge0rge: 1 in every 9 people here in the Bay are employed by forestry, I have been told.

In other words around 90% of the people who have been impacted by this were not the ones involved in creating the issue.

Edited to add: I tried to phrase this as not-pointing-the-finger-at-forestry as I could but it still may be a bit unclear, what I was pointing out is that ten times as many people experience negative consequences compared to those who experience benefits.

muppet

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#3040113 21-Feb-2023 16:13

I know people are blaming forestry, and a number are blaming farming.

Living in Hawke's Bay myself, personally I think that while those are both interesting aspects, I don't think either of those are the cause for the problems we're currently going through.

The cause of it all is pretty obvious when you think about it: It was the massive f***ing cyclone last Monday Night/Tuesday morning.

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