Are we getting a tad precious?

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Ultimate Geek

#2181712 17-Feb-2019 23:06

Is anyone posting in this thread a NZ Asian?

It's kinda inappropriate for people who aren't to be saying that she shouldn't have been offended by it when they haven't experienced what it's like being an Asian, especially a Kiwi Asian, in New Zealand.

Racism is a more objective standard, and agree that there is likely no racism at play here unless the chefs or serving staff etc discriminated against her because she was described as "Asian" on the docket and I don't think any racism was intended - but it could be considered a form of casual racism, the sort many people brush off as ok, but over time it builds up and grates at a person until they break which may have happened here, even though this isn't one of the more egregious situations by far.

But as to whether something is offensive or not should be considered from the perspective of the person who may be feeling the offence. Telling someone they shouldn't be offended by something suggests that you think your opinion on how they should be feeling trumps theirs and you don't what they think or their feelings.

I can see why she would feel offended by it - the term Asian has been used in the past in offensive ways, when people refer to Asians as a group it is not normally in a nice way (or at least, those memories stay with you and are remembered easier) and being categorised as Asian presents a form of "otherness", like you don't belong in the country. It's the sort of thing white NZers who immigrated here don't experience. It's similar to how lots of Kiwi Asian people don't like the question "Where are you from?" and the worse "no, where are you really from?". It makes you feel like an outsider despite the fact that many Kiwi Asians have been here for generations. Kiwi Asians often have little connection to their ancestral homeland apart from their appearance but they get automatically categorised because of it.

Just because in many Asian countries there is a lot of casual racism shouldn't mean that we should tolerate it in NZ and that Asians in NZ should tolerate it just because white people tolerate it in Asia.

Coil

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#2181739 18-Feb-2019 07:22

Tzoi:

Is anyone posting in this thread a NZ Asian?

It's kinda inappropriate for people who aren't to be saying that she shouldn't have been offended by it when they haven't experienced what it's like being an Asian, especially a Kiwi Asian, in New Zealand.

Racism is a more objective standard, and agree that there is likely no racism at play here unless the chefs or serving staff etc discriminated against her because she was described as "Asian" on the docket and I don't think any racism was intended - but it could be considered a form of casual racism, the sort many people brush off as ok, but over time it builds up and grates at a person until they break which may have happened here, even though this isn't one of the more egregious situations by far.

But as to whether something is offensive or not should be considered from the perspective of the person who may be feeling the offence. Telling someone they shouldn't be offended by something suggests that you think your opinion on how they should be feeling trumps theirs and you don't what they think or their feelings.

I can see why she would feel offended by it - the term Asian has been used in the past in offensive ways, when people refer to Asians as a group it is not normally in a nice way (or at least, those memories stay with you and are remembered easier) and being categorised as Asian presents a form of "otherness", like you don't belong in the country. It's the sort of thing white NZers who immigrated here don't experience. It's similar to how lots of Kiwi Asian people don't like the question "Where are you from?" and the worse "no, where are you really from?". It makes you feel like an outsider despite the fact that many Kiwi Asians have been here for generations. Kiwi Asians often have little connection to their ancestral homeland apart from their appearance but they get automatically categorised because of it.

Just because in many Asian countries there is a lot of casual racism shouldn't mean that we should tolerate it in NZ and that Asians in NZ should tolerate it just because white people tolerate it in Asia.

No one is denying anyone the right to be offended. Everyone has that right and can use it how they wish, the only thing is that it becomes a far fetched joke when people are now starting to pick on all these little things to take offence to, like when someone innocently describes someones appearance, or may use the wrong pronoun in the LGBT+ category. They have the right to be offended and if they wish to be that is on them and I'm not taking responsibility for it.
Not everyone goes around with malice name calling people... If someone asks where are you from, it is mostly out of curiosity. I am 1/2 English, 1/4 German and 1/4 Norwegian and as a bland white kiwi, I get asked where am I from quite frequently. I have also asked some of my Asian friends "Where are you really from"? To have great stories told of home and a lot of other things. These guys have pride in where they came from or at least their heritage or culture if they don't know their own roots. I've asked my mates who are Kiwi Asians what they think about NZ and they say it is great, don't have any issues at all and never feel like they are being discriminated against or ridiculed. Not sure where you are in NZ or what your story is but it seems you should have a brighter outlook on humanity :), I'd suggest if you ever plan on moving forward, I'd stop relating everything to past stigmas.

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#2181832 18-Feb-2019 09:32

gzt: Jackson. I can't really enjoy anything from the neverland period. After hearing some of the recent revelations I'm not sure I will enjoy the earlier stuff either next time I hear it. On that basis I tend to think it's personal choice.

This seems a world away from the original topic should have been a new topic.

You should look into those "revelations" more closely methinks.

networkn

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#2181833 18-Feb-2019 09:37

Tzoi:

Is anyone posting in this thread a NZ Asian?

I am not, however, my wife is, and so is most of her family, and I have hired and worked with Asian people my entire career.

The person who got upset in the OP admitted she was Asian, was referred to as Asian, I am unsure what the issue is?

As @coil has said, stigma that may or may not have built up for this person, isn't the responsibility of the waitresss to alleviate or resolve.

One of my staff is Chinese and I genuinely was interested in his take. He said he would prefer not to be referred to as Asian in that situation, however, at worst he may have chosen not to eat there again, but wouldn't have thought of making a complaint about it.

Rikkitic

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#2181906 18-Feb-2019 10:26

Having thought about this at length, and possessing what I like to believe are ‘progressive’ values, and also being unfortunately cursed with that bland European lack of skin tint that makes people of colour so much more appealling and makes our Asiatic brethren think of death, I have arrived at this conclusion:

1. As a non-Asian, I am not entitled to an opinion.
2. That does not prevent me (or anyone else) from venturing one.
3. A person who feels racially targeted, whatever the intention, has every right to be offended.
4. In such a setting, diners are probably identified by prominent visual cues.
5. The wait person almost certainly was not trying to offend, but probably committed casual racism. Why is race seen as the dominant characteristic here? Was everyone dressed in Mao suits?
6. I do think the diner over-reacted, but again, I am not entitled to an opinion.
7. Why aren’t the seats just numbered so something like this can never happen again?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#2181912 18-Feb-2019 10:35

Rikkitic:

Having thought about this at length, and possessing what I like to believe are ‘progressive’ values, and also being unfortunately cursed with that bland European lack of skin tint that makes people of colour so much more appealling and makes our Asiatic brethren think of death, I have arrived at this conclusion:

1. As a non-Asian, I am not entitled to an opinion.
2. That does not prevent me (or anyone else) from venturing one.
3. A person who feels racially targeted, whatever the intention, has every right to be offended.
4. In such a setting, diners are probably identified by prominent visual cues.
5. The wait person almost certainly was not trying to offend, but probably committed casual racism. Why is race seen as the dominant characteristic here? Was everyone dressed in Mao suits?
6. I do think the diner over-reacted, but again, I am not entitled to an opinion.
7. Why aren’t the seats just numbered so something like this can never happen again?

You're entitled to an opinion on any subject under the sun.

MikeB4

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#2181966 18-Feb-2019 12:54

I have popped in briefly to add my own personal take on this. For many here this topic may seem trivial and the reaction being beyond what was necessary. When someone is presented with labels, insults, attacks and bigotry over a period of time one gets more and more sensitive to this and the reaction changes.

I have and family members have been the targets of labelling, abuse and bigotry. It is hurtful and not trivial in any way. It strikes at ones very being and cuts deep. What happened in this case may not seem much to many but at a personal level it is just one a many, many cuts.

There is no need for this at all in a restaurant or any business, labelling people in this manner is wrong and so easily avoided. I have never seen a table or a chair being offended by a label but I have experienced the effect of such labelling and it is very hurtful. I now think twice about going out for dinner, movies and cafes because of this very thing. It only needs a bit of compassion and affinity to avoid all this.

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#2181967 18-Feb-2019 12:58

Nice to see you Mike, we were worried about your sudden absence

Rikkitic

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#2181976 18-Feb-2019 13:10

Welcome back Mike. Glad to see you here.

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#2181977 18-Feb-2019 13:10

Welcome back. Fully agree with mike.

jarledb

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#2181991 18-Feb-2019 13:33

Me thinks there are some Kiwis that would be offended if they were labeled "Europeans" on the docket.

Really not a good idea to label the dockets with what people look like. Taken to the next logical step it would be "balding man by the window", etc.

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networkn

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#2181992 18-Feb-2019 13:34

jarledb:

Me thinks there are some Kiwis that would be offended if they were labeled "Europeans" on the docket.

Really not a good idea to label the dockets with what people look like. Taken to the next logical step it would be "balding man by the window", etc.

Personally, if I was a balding man standing by the window, then that's fine.

Coil

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#2181997 18-Feb-2019 13:59

networkn:

jarledb:

Me thinks there are some Kiwis that would be offended if they were labeled "Europeans" on the docket.

Really not a good idea to label the dockets with what people look like. Taken to the next logical step it would be "balding man by the window", etc.

Personally, if I was a balding man standing by the window, then that's fine.

I'll see you at the window in 5 years :)

networkn

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#2181999 18-Feb-2019 14:03

Mate, if they describe me as this now, it would be accurate, so no need to wait 5 years :)

Coil

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#2182019 18-Feb-2019 14:40

networkn:

Mate, if they describe me as this now, it would be accurate, so no need to wait 5 years :)

More meaning I'm going to be in your club in 5 years hahah!
Had my sisters 21st on the weekend and was looking at Photos of dad and he was slick top at 30!

Cheers

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