Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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#3228737 10-May-2024 13:55

SaltyNZ:

Shadowfoot:

Selling back to the grid is not important as I expect there would be very little of that with the use of the battery and EV.

That depends strongly on whether you are at home to charge the EV during the day. If you are not but you don't want to sell back to the grid then you have to have a battery big enough to fill your EV and panels big enough to make sure they charge it. For us the cost difference would have put the payback period for the solar system from ~6 years to "maybe never". It makes more sense for us to sell to grid when there is excess and buy it back at night when the cars are in the garage charging. Overall the cost is around 3c/kWh. In summer we tend to average over 30kWh hours a day (biggest I've seen was just over 40kWh but that is only for a cloudless day in high summer) but in winter it can be as low as 5kWh for a terrible weather day.

We do charge during the day because we both can work from home, but it isn't as much as we would have thought.

Thanks. I'm not reluctant to sell back to the grid. I was assuming the value in doing so is low as it'll be at a time when grid usage is low. I would not want to over-engineer the solution to charge the EV from the panels and battery exclusively.

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tweake

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#3228739 10-May-2024 14:02

Shadowfoot:

For me I'd be interested in a house with 2 people home most of the time, with battery to shift usage, and charging of an EV. Selling back to the grid is not important as I expect there would be very little of that with the use of the battery and EV.

this is where cheap large storage will make a huge difference. being able to generate you own power then use it later, or charge your ev is a big win. it also gets around the problem of having to many grid connected homes. you also could charge up the battery when power prices are low and use that power when prices are high, which helps even out the loads on the grid.

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#3228740 10-May-2024 14:02

networkn:

10,000 fast chargers running at once hardly seems out of the scope of possibility. I think the wild comparisons don't do much to add to the credibility.

Sure, it's possible. New Zealand currently has 250 public chargers of 25kW or better. So we only need to grow the public charging network by 40x to get there.

But given how EV sales have collapsed since the removal of the clean car discount, I don't think it's imminent.

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tweake

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#3228743 10-May-2024 14:11

sen8or:

Is the country capable of having a rational discussion on nuclear energy though? How do you decipher what is fear mongering from what is actual fact? One mans fact is anothers "fake news".

I'm certainly no environmentalist, but can understand the irreversible risks to the environment if something goes wrong. Granted, those risks are low, but they exist. Given many parts of the country are on active fault lines, it would seem the opportunity for "safe placement" of the plant would be sparse.

On the other hand though, if we want clean / green energy, coal/gas isn't the solution. We could subsidize solar installations on existing houses and mandate them on new builds where practical, add in other healthy home measures to make houses more energy efficient (isn't there a way of taking warmth from the ground and using that as heating, not sure of costs / practicality)

Adding more electricity hungry assets to NZ (EVs for example) will make a more permanent solution to our energy needs more and more urgent. The first cold day of Autumn and we are urged to switch off our heaters in the morning? Hardly long term or sustainable strategy.

the country is not capable of that. it will be a whole bunch of noisy idiots chanting nonsense, while the people who understand it will not get a voice in edgewise (and thats for both sides of the argument).

there is issues with mass scale domestic solar.

ground source heat pumps certainly work but are $$$$.

also wave generation is around but again issues. there was a plan for one in the Kaipara harbor.

first cold day and its a power crisis, and the media isn't kicking up a stink. why are we accepting failure?

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#3228745 10-May-2024 14:17

I am not in favour of nuclear. However, I believe that it is the time for a non partisan discussion in Aotearoa regarding nuclear power as a power generation option. We can still go a lot further with wind and solar generation but as our power requirements grow with EVs etc our power grid will come under greater pressure and outages are more an absolute than a maybe.

As for the other nuclear bogeyman I have an unmoving objection to nuclear powered warships and nuclear armed anything.

johno1234

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#3228747 10-May-2024 14:26

SaltyNZ:

*Yes, I'm aware that there are people who can't.

That doesn't matter as long as enough people can.

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#3228748 10-May-2024 14:27

johno1234:

SaltyNZ:

*Yes, I'm aware that there are people who can't.

That doesn't matter as long as enough people can.

For the purposes of this discussion? I agree. But someone always brings it up. :-)

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gzt

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#3228751 10-May-2024 14:32

I have missed several pages. The promise of nuclear in the 50's and 60's was almost limitless free power.

It did not, has not, and never worked out that way.

Now we admit there is a cost and it's not free. Now the problems remain and we can acknowledge those problems but not the real cost. The first post proposal not look into that as this all comes under 'investigate'.

wellygary

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#3228753 10-May-2024 14:37

My thoughts are that NZ will not go "nuclear" before Australia does,

Once OZ starts to have floating reactors (Submarines) based in places like Perth and Adelaide, I think there will be heightened discussion of nuclear power

But the subs arn;t due until 2030/2040, So by that time they will be looking for to line up low emission replacements for their gas power stations they want to phase out around 2050 ...

I'll likely be long dead before NZ gets close to looking at that decision.....

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#3228759 10-May-2024 14:41

Shadowfoot:

Thanks. I'm not reluctant to sell back to the grid. I was assuming the value in doing so is low as it'll be at a time when grid usage is low. I would not want to over-engineer the solution to charge the EV from the panels and battery exclusively.

My sell back rate, and my night rate are the same. So as long as i can sell back more than I use overnight, im not paying to charge my car. Im also able to cover my base load during the day.

I would love the ability to go V2G as my car supports it, but there is no practical device to enable it to happen yet.

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#3228761 10-May-2024 14:45

I think most developments over xx number of houses should have small scale distributed solar along with small scale battery systems installed to, 1 help those in the houses with their power bills, and 2 offset peak demand on the grid via the batteries. That should be subsidized by the government.

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#3228763 10-May-2024 14:45

wellygary:

My thoughts are that NZ will not go "nuclear" before Australia does,

Once OZ starts to have floating reactors (Submarines) based in places like Perth and Adelaide, I think there will be heightened discussion of nuclear power

But the subs arn;t due until 2030/2040, So by that time they will be looking for to line up low emission replacements for their gas power stations they want to phase out around 2050 ...

I'll likely be long dead before NZ gets close to looking at that decision.....

Australia has a reactor in Lucas Heights, Sydney, though it is not used to produce electricity.

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#3228764 10-May-2024 14:47

To a large extent Australia is in a very different geologic position to New Zealand and has a very different set of decisions.

Personally I'm less concerned about running out of power and far more concerned about having our capital city and government on the worst faultline, and having our major economic driver and financial centre Auckland parked right next to a high risk volcano.

I'd much rather spend on moving both to Manukau area nearer the airport win:win:win but that's another story.

Paul1977

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#3228768 10-May-2024 15:20

Haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if I'm repeating what anyone else has already said.

We should absolutely look at the viability of nuclear power, but even if viable it would be a long term goal. All the anti-nuclear people need to understand there is a big difference between nuclear weapons and nuclear power.

Short term the government needs to mandate that power companies buy excess power from home solar at a reasonable rate instead of the huge difference there is now (I believe currently they pay a tiny amount to buy excess power during the day, then charge way more to sell it back to the same customer at night). This would create a huge uptick in the number of people installing solar because you could reap way more benefit without the added expense of a battery.

wellygary

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#3228775 10-May-2024 15:41

Jase2985:

I think most developments over xx number of houses should have small scale distributed solar along with small scale battery systems installed to, 1 help those in the houses with their power bills, and 2 offset peak demand on the grid via the batteries. That should be subsidized by the government.

Why should the Government be involved, If it saves money for the owner surely that is incentive enough,

As for batteries, you get a significant better bang for you buck with Grid scaled batteries verses household scale,

"The price goes down to $475 per kWh for even larger 100+ Megapack projects, which are actually becoming quite common."
https://electrek.co/2022/09/14/tesla-megapack-update-specs-price/

a 13.5 kwh Powerwall pricie at that time was ~$800/kwh
https://la-solargroup.com/cost-of-tesla-solar-panels/

i'm also pretty sure that grid scale solar is cheaper than house by house roof panels

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