R Plates ...ARE YOU KIDDING ME !?!?!

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1377 posts

Uber Geek

#633764 31-May-2012 23:03

miamiheatfan:
networkn:

Firstly, where do you get this info regarding unrestrained pets, I have googled like crazy trying to find what you state is illegal.

Secondly, yes they COULD be a distraction but so can a lot of things especially kids which you are allowed to take on your restricted if you are their legal guardian.

Thirdly, if anything I would probably find a learner driver more predictable they tend to stick to the speed limit, they tend to indicate (something that 'veteran' drivers often tend to forget to do) they don't drive too close. etc etc. Yes they COULD do something unpredictable but so could that middle aged person driving the $200,000 Jag, you just don't know so therefore I treat every road user with the same caution as I treat another.

Fourthly, for the record I believe they should raise the age of purchasing alcohol from a bottle store to 20 but leave the age to go to a bar/pub at 18.

Well I wouldn't recommend taking kids in the car as a restricted driver, but that's not the law.

Learner drivers are simply statistically more likely to do something unpredictable as they have not yet got the experience that being a longer term driver gives you. Also learner drivers are more often either younger people or people from another country who may not yet be used to all the rules. It's why they place significant restrictions on a learner driver (as well they should).

wrong. again.
Learner drivers are statistically proven to be much more predictable than the seasoned drivers due to the fact that they ARE learning about the NZ road and its rules. and the fact that they most likely have a supervisor next to them.

It's the seasoned drivers who are more predictable. Those who do not use their turn signal at roundabouts thinking "hey nobody here, i'm a veteran driver"

Do you have a link to back this up?

jbard

1377 posts

Uber Geek

#633765 31-May-2012 23:04

miamiheatfan:
networkn:

and you my friend, is another example of "big talk - no facts" kind of people.

I've got a restricted license and my parents are in their 50s , my sister is in her late 20s , all have been driving more than 10 years.
And hold it , my friends all have full time jobs, have licenses , never been fined, crashed , or had tickets. Some have R and some F.
STRIKE ONE, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG.

#2 , NO , the drinking age should actually be 21. And the NZ govt is doing the right thing and is moving in the right direction in increasing it, the same with license age.
So NO, we're not the same people.
STRIKE TWO, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG AGAIN.

Ignorant, uneducated, insulting kiwi. People like YOU are the ones that puts our country to shame. Pre-judging everyone and assuming s*** about people.

Shame on you mate.

LOL wow classy reply there sunshine. How about you re-read my post before you cram your other foot in your mouth. Better still, be quiet and let the adults talk.

I would also personally put $50 on the fact that unless you have very few friends, one or more of them WILL have had ticket(s).

Go Re-Read my post, take a deep breath and chill out.

Oh you're an adult ? calling people names and using lame terms "cram your other foot into your mouth" .. ? adult.

Just as i expected from a typical kiwi bloke like you. Uneducated.

Oh fyi, you consider yourself an adult because you have a full time job ? degree (probable) ? and a license and friends ?
Guess what, so do I.
Or should i be calling you a little kid too because you've got parents , right ? As we all do.
So you should go be quiet, and let the smart educated people talk.

Oh and i'd gladly take your $50 thank you very much , Since i have lots of friends and know them very well and speak to them very often enough to know that none of them have had any of those things.

Hey noob, it's ACTUALLY POSSIBLE to have no fines, crashes and tickets. It's called COMMON SENSE and OBIDING THE FKN LAW.
My lovely parents have been driving for over 3 decades in new zealand , no tickets, no crashes, wasting money on insurance, never claimed.

Go re-read my post, take a deep breath, and chill out.

Thought about getting back into this discussion but you have just proved it isn't worth it. Bye.

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633767 31-May-2012 23:07

jbard:
miamiheatfan:
networkn:

Firstly, where do you get this info regarding unrestrained pets, I have googled like crazy trying to find what you state is illegal.

Secondly, yes they COULD be a distraction but so can a lot of things especially kids which you are allowed to take on your restricted if you are their legal guardian.

Thirdly, if anything I would probably find a learner driver more predictable they tend to stick to the speed limit, they tend to indicate (something that 'veteran' drivers often tend to forget to do) they don't drive too close. etc etc. Yes they COULD do something unpredictable but so could that middle aged person driving the $200,000 Jag, you just don't know so therefore I treat every road user with the same caution as I treat another.

Fourthly, for the record I believe they should raise the age of purchasing alcohol from a bottle store to 20 but leave the age to go to a bar/pub at 18.

Well I wouldn't recommend taking kids in the car as a restricted driver, but that's not the law.

Learner drivers are simply statistically more likely to do something unpredictable as they have not yet got the experience that being a longer term driver gives you. Also learner drivers are more often either younger people or people from another country who may not yet be used to all the rules. It's why they place significant restrictions on a learner driver (as well they should).

wrong. again.
Learner drivers are statistically proven to be much more predictable than the seasoned drivers due to the fact that they ARE learning about the NZ road and its rules. and the fact that they most likely have a supervisor next to them.

It's the seasoned drivers who are more predictable. Those who do not use their turn signal at roundabouts thinking "hey nobody here, i'm a veteran driver"

Do you have a link to back this up?

Do you have link to back the opposing views up ? ...No ?...thought so.
Only talks.

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633768 31-May-2012 23:08

jbard:
miamiheatfan:
networkn:

and you my friend, is another example of "big talk - no facts" kind of people.

I've got a restricted license and my parents are in their 50s , my sister is in her late 20s , all have been driving more than 10 years.
And hold it , my friends all have full time jobs, have licenses , never been fined, crashed , or had tickets. Some have R and some F.
STRIKE ONE, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG.

#2 , NO , the drinking age should actually be 21. And the NZ govt is doing the right thing and is moving in the right direction in increasing it, the same with license age.
So NO, we're not the same people.
STRIKE TWO, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG AGAIN.

Ignorant, uneducated, insulting kiwi. People like YOU are the ones that puts our country to shame. Pre-judging everyone and assuming s*** about people.

Shame on you mate.

LOL wow classy reply there sunshine. How about you re-read my post before you cram your other foot in your mouth. Better still, be quiet and let the adults talk.

I would also personally put $50 on the fact that unless you have very few friends, one or more of them WILL have had ticket(s).

Go Re-Read my post, take a deep breath and chill out.

Oh you're an adult ? calling people names and using lame terms "cram your other foot into your mouth" .. ? adult.

Just as i expected from a typical kiwi bloke like you. Uneducated.

Oh fyi, you consider yourself an adult because you have a full time job ? degree (probable) ? and a license and friends ?
Guess what, so do I.
Or should i be calling you a little kid too because you've got parents , right ? As we all do.
So you should go be quiet, and let the smart educated people talk.

Oh and i'd gladly take your $50 thank you very much , Since i have lots of friends and know them very well and speak to them very often enough to know that none of them have had any of those things.

Hey noob, it's ACTUALLY POSSIBLE to have no fines, crashes and tickets. It's called COMMON SENSE and OBIDING THE FKN LAW.
My lovely parents have been driving for over 3 decades in new zealand , no tickets, no crashes, wasting money on insurance, never claimed.

Go re-read my post, take a deep breath, and chill out.

Thought about getting back into this discussion but you have just proved it isn't worth it. Bye.

I'm glad you cancelled on that thought.

Wouldn't wanna have to discuss this with you.

Having looked at your DP , i wouldn't either.

Good riddance. Bye.

jbard

1377 posts

Uber Geek

#633769 31-May-2012 23:09

miamiheatfan:
jbard:
miamiheatfan:
networkn:

Firstly, where do you get this info regarding unrestrained pets, I have googled like crazy trying to find what you state is illegal.

Secondly, yes they COULD be a distraction but so can a lot of things especially kids which you are allowed to take on your restricted if you are their legal guardian.

Thirdly, if anything I would probably find a learner driver more predictable they tend to stick to the speed limit, they tend to indicate (something that 'veteran' drivers often tend to forget to do) they don't drive too close. etc etc. Yes they COULD do something unpredictable but so could that middle aged person driving the $200,000 Jag, you just don't know so therefore I treat every road user with the same caution as I treat another.

Fourthly, for the record I believe they should raise the age of purchasing alcohol from a bottle store to 20 but leave the age to go to a bar/pub at 18.

Well I wouldn't recommend taking kids in the car as a restricted driver, but that's not the law.

Learner drivers are simply statistically more likely to do something unpredictable as they have not yet got the experience that being a longer term driver gives you. Also learner drivers are more often either younger people or people from another country who may not yet be used to all the rules. It's why they place significant restrictions on a learner driver (as well they should).

wrong. again.
Learner drivers are statistically proven to be much more predictable than the seasoned drivers due to the fact that they ARE learning about the NZ road and its rules. and the fact that they most likely have a supervisor next to them.

It's the seasoned drivers who are more predictable. Those who do not use their turn signal at roundabouts thinking "hey nobody here, i'm a veteran driver"

Do you have a link to back this up?

Do you have link to back the opposing views up ? ...No ?...thought so.
Only talks.

I don't have an opposing view (I don't have any view), I just don't blindly believe everything I get told on the internet.

Hobchild

623 posts

Ultimate Geek

#633770 31-May-2012 23:10

networkn:
Well I wouldn't recommend taking kids in the car as a restricted driver, but that's not the law.

Learner drivers are simply statistically more likely to do something unpredictable as they have not yet got the experience that being a longer term driver gives you. Also learner drivers are more often either younger people or people from another country who may not yet be used to all the rules. It's why they place significant restrictions on a learner driver (as well they should).

Could you provide a link to back-up these statistics. If you can I will happily stand corrected otherwise I am to assume that this is in fact an opinion. But yes learner drivers are often young or from another country and therefore not used to the rules but if they are obeying the rules/restrictions then they should have an experienced driver with them telling them what to do, plus they are preparing for a test so they will most likely try their best to do everything by the book.

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633771 31-May-2012 23:12

Hobchild:
networkn:
Well I wouldn't recommend taking kids in the car as a restricted driver, but that's not the law.

Learner drivers are simply statistically more likely to do something unpredictable as they have not yet got the experience that being a longer term driver gives you. Also learner drivers are more often either younger people or people from another country who may not yet be used to all the rules. It's why they place significant restrictions on a learner driver (as well they should).

Could you provide a link to back-up these statistics. If you can I will happily stand corrected otherwise I am to assume that this is in fact an opinion. But yes learner drivers are often young or from another country and therefore not used to the rules but if they are obeying the rules/restrictions then they should have an experienced driver with them telling them what to do, plus they are preparing for a test so they will most likely try their best to do everything by the book.

This ^ +1

Learner drivers are actually trying to pass the Restricted test , so they will be on their best behaviour and will pretty much do alot of the things that seasoned drivers will miss (due to cockiness thinking they're experts so they can drive while reading newspaper, talking on phones while tailgating the front car within 1 meter in at 50k zone...which i've witnessed a few times)

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Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#633773 31-May-2012 23:23

miamiheatfan: [snip]
wrong. again.
Learner drivers are statistically proven to be much more predictable than the seasoned drivers due to the fact that they ARE learning about the NZ road and its rules. and the fact that they most likely have a supervisor next to them.

It's the seasoned drivers who are more predictable. Those who do not use their turn signal at roundabouts thinking "hey nobody here, i'm a veteran driver"

1) Don't make contradicting statements in the same breath.

2) Cite your sources for whichever of the two opposing viewpoints you think is right.

There's no point getting personal but I simply can't see how you can possibly maintain that young people with less experience are better and safer drivers than older, more experienced drivers.

By virtually any metric your assertion is rubbish.

http://www.youthstats.myd.govt.nz/indicator/safe/road-deaths/age.html

The 4th chart on this page: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2010/03/road-toll-statistics-how-are-we-doing.html

etc etc etc.

Don't get personal - I invite you to back up your assertions with references and facts. Until then, I am going to consider them to be biased and unfounded statements.

Regards - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#633776 31-May-2012 23:29

miamiheatfan: [snip] talking on phones while tailgating the front car within 1 meter in at 50k zone...which i've witnessed a few times)

No, you've never seen this - you're just hideously bad at estimating distances.

This is based on over 20 years of driving increasingly powerful cars with no accidents, combined with motorsport experience and training, and 3 speeding tickets in that entire time - 2 of which were from speed cameras in 50 zones between here and Dunedin (60 and 63kmh)... The other was 118 on the canterbury plains on the way to the West Coast.

If someone is following at 1 metre, it's only going to be in the split second before a crash... Unless of course the traffic is crawling at walking pace - and even then, 1 metre is MUCH closer that you think.

Next time you park a car, have a look at the approx 1 metre space from your car to the car in front and now imagine that at 50kmh. It doesn't hold water.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#633777 31-May-2012 23:33

gehenna: Kiwi drivers are bloody awful. Anything that adds an extra layer of accountability or enables a driver's license level to be identified at a glance is a good thing IMO

Kiwi drivers no better or worse than in other countries. I've lived in a few places (RHD and LHD), and when people drive on similar roads they behave in similar ways. But kiwi roads are quite poor (very slowly improving). Other countries would rate our 100kph state highways at 80kph .

I don't like the R plate rule. We just have so many laws and rules in this country now. Every time something can be 'improved', they make a new law. I don't see that R plates will help much anyway.

If they keep creating laws at the current rate, imagine how life will be in 100 years.

These are just opinions of course .

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633778 31-May-2012 23:35

Talkiet:
miamiheatfan: [snip]
wrong. again.
Learner drivers are statistically proven to be much more predictable than the seasoned drivers due to the fact that they ARE learning about the NZ road and its rules. and the fact that they most likely have a supervisor next to them.

It's the seasoned drivers who are more predictable. Those who do not use their turn signal at roundabouts thinking "hey nobody here, i'm a veteran driver"

1) Don't make contradicting statements in the same breath.

2) Cite your sources for whichever of the two opposing viewpoints you think is right.

There's no point getting personal but I simply can't see how you can possibly maintain that young people with less experience are better and safer drivers than older, more experienced drivers.

By virtually any metric your assertion is rubbish.

http://www.youthstats.myd.govt.nz/indicator/safe/road-deaths/age.html

The 4th chart on this page: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2010/03/road-toll-statistics-how-are-we-doing.html

etc etc etc.

Don't get personal - I invite you to back up your assertions with references and facts. Until then, I am going to consider them to be biased and unfounded statements.

Regards - N

Quite a lot of don't there mate. You're not my boss. So I will do what I want to do.

"until then i'm going to consider" .....feel free. I could care less what you consider. it's a opinion and i don't give a rat's arse about your opinion.

Your link there only provided the death toll of youth and you're comparing it with adults.

OH SURE , young kids who died from DUI are due to a lack of driving experience...LOLLLL.
Boy, please, you're in over your head mate.
IF a young kid decides to drink then drive, then he's an idiot and has not had the proper education on drink-driving.
NO RELATION at all to "young people have less experience"

You know the new give way rule ? yea my sister the other day was turning left to Garton Drive from triangle road. A car is also signalling right to garton drive from the other side of the road.
New rule means my sister has the right of way..guess what , when she was about 10 meters from the intersection ..the damn driver went and turned. BAM. She was driving a Camry, wearing a blouse, office , might've been a real estate agent i don't know.
AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME OLDER PEOPLE ARE MORE EXPERIENCED ? please inject yourself with a dose of reality

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#633779 31-May-2012 23:38

miamiheatfan: [snip]

and you my friend, is another example of "big talk - no facts" kind of people.

I've got a restricted license and my parents are in their 50s , my sister is in her late 20s , all have been driving more than 10 years.
And hold it , my friends all have full time jobs, have licenses , never been fined, crashed , or had tickets. Some have R and some F.
STRIKE ONE, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG.
[snip]

You and your friends don't make a statistically significant sample.

I'm prepared to believe you're an excellent, attentive, considerate law abiding driver, as are all of your friends and family. (actually, that's very unlikely, but I'll believe you) Now, even with that being accepted, those several dozen people have next to no impact on the NZ wide population of drivers.

Please explain, how your personal experience with a statistically insignificant number of drivers means you can categorically state that all the rest of the research and stats saying younger drivers are worse (have more accidents / over-represented in road fatalities) that older drivers is wrong.

That's seriously what you are saying there. You're saying your personal experience is right, and everyone else (road safety researchers, police, government etc) is wrong.

It's getting increasingly hard to take your confident assertions seriously.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633780 31-May-2012 23:40

Talkiet:
miamiheatfan: [snip] talking on phones while tailgating the front car within 1 meter in at 50k zone...which i've witnessed a few times)

No, you've never seen this - you're just hideously bad at estimating distances.

This is based on over 20 years of driving increasingly powerful cars with no accidents, combined with motorsport experience and training, and 3 speeding tickets in that entire time - 2 of which were from speed cameras in 50 zones between here and Dunedin (60 and 63kmh)... The other was 118 on the canterbury plains on the way to the West Coast.

If someone is following at 1 metre, it's only going to be in the split second before a crash... Unless of course the traffic is crawling at walking pace - and even then, 1 metre is MUCH closer that you think.

Next time you park a car, have a look at the approx 1 metre space from your car to the car in front and now imagine that at 50kmh. It doesn't hold water.

Cheers - N

Mate, first of all yes it is possible and yes it has happened.

And yes i've seen this because effing PARKING SENSOR BEEPED . SO STOP Bsing and saying i don't when you don't have the facts.

that incident was one of the craziest i've ever been apart of. If i had braked just a little bit, he can say goodbye to his front grille.

yes i know how long 1 meter is. you saying it's not possible only proves it's YOU who are clueless.

Oh and 60 and 63 in a 50kmh zone ? ....118 in a 100 zone ? ....And you're trying to lecture me what's A and what's B ? Yea right.

and OF COURSE it would be coming from someone driving "increasingly powerful cars" ...no wonder.

Don't lecture people when you drive 63 on at 50k zone and 118 in a 100 zone. I'm glad i wasn't around you those times, what a danger to the road.

miamiheatfan

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#633782 31-May-2012 23:45

Talkiet:
miamiheatfan: [snip]

and you my friend, is another example of "big talk - no facts" kind of people.

I've got a restricted license and my parents are in their 50s , my sister is in her late 20s , all have been driving more than 10 years.
And hold it , my friends all have full time jobs, have licenses , never been fined, crashed , or had tickets. Some have R and some F.
STRIKE ONE, YOU"RE DEAD WRONG.
[snip]

You and your friends don't make a statistically significant sample.

I'm prepared to believe you're an excellent, attentive, considerate law abiding driver, as are all of your friends and family. (actually, that's very unlikely, but I'll believe you) Now, even with that being accepted, those several dozen people have next to no impact on the NZ wide population of drivers.

Please explain, how your personal experience with a statistically insignificant number of drivers means you can categorically state that all the rest of the research and stats saying younger drivers are worse (have more accidents / over-represented in road fatalities) that older drivers is wrong.

That's seriously what you are saying there. You're saying your personal experience is right, and everyone else (road safety researchers, police, government etc) is wrong.

It's getting increasingly hard to take your confident assertions seriously.

Cheers - N

Nope. not saying the govt is wrong at all. Stats are stats.
BUT..if you wanna get into stats now, ok then , lets get REALLY INTO IT.

From those findings, about young vs old drivers. Find the type of cars, nationality and gender of those cases.
You will see that most of the young people were driving NON-STREET WORTHY cars, illegally modified boy racer cars , all sorts of infractions.
The kind you would see on Motorway Patrol or Police Ten 7.

No, me, my friends and family aren't a perfect driver. But neither are you and those of you that thinks you're much better than Learner drivers. You're not.

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#633783 31-May-2012 23:45

miamiheatfan:
Quite a lot of don't there mate. You're not my boss. So I will do what I want to do.

"until then i'm going to consider" .....feel free. I could care less what you consider. it's a opinion and i don't give a rat's arse about your opinion.

Your link there only provided the death toll of youth and you're comparing it with adults.

OH SURE , young kids who died from DUI are due to a lack of driving experience...LOLLLL.
Boy, please, you're in over your head mate.
IF a young kid decides to drink then drive, then he's an idiot and has not had the proper education on drink-driving.
NO RELATION at all to "young people have less experience"

You know the new give way rule ? yea my sister the other day was turning left to Garton Drive from triangle road. A car is also signalling right to garton drive from the other side of the road.
New rule means my sister has the right of way..guess what , when she was about 10 meters from the intersection ..the damn driver went and turned. BAM. She was driving a Camry, wearing a blouse, office , might've been a real estate agent i don't know.
AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME OLDER PEOPLE ARE MORE EXPERIENCED ? please inject yourself with a dose of reality

What you've done there is virtually ignored the NZ and global stats I linked to, and provided another anecdote.

PLEASE go away and learn something about stats and how a single anecdotally recalled event doesn't disprove thousands or tens of thousands of observations.

I'm quite happy to evaluate any real evidence or arguments you might have, but so far all I'm hearing is "I think this and I saw something that supported it so it must be right"

How about this? I'll use your logic...

"The other day I was driving and I saw a young guy, must have been about 18, and he blew through a stop sign without even looking... AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOUNGER DRIVERS ARE ATTENTIVE AND SHOW GOOD JUDGEMENT? please inject yourself with a dose of reality"

Now, that is clearly wrong and horribly misleading.

But it's exactly the same argument you just tried to make.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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