Public Holiday Trading Rules

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#3213308 2-Apr-2024 19:12

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2024/03/analysis-why-6-is-too-cheap-for-a-coffee.html

There are some numbers for you

given how many commodities are cheaper in Australia than here I would have an educated guess the margins will also be LOWER.

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#3213312 2-Apr-2024 19:27

sir1963:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2024/03/analysis-why-6-is-too-cheap-for-a-coffee.html

There are some numbers for you

given how many commodities are cheaper in Australia than here I would have an educated guess the margins will also be LOWER.

Cool story. TLDR: many cafes suck at business.

sir1963

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#3213315 2-Apr-2024 19:33

Handle9:
sir1963:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2024/03/analysis-why-6-is-too-cheap-for-a-coffee.html

There are some numbers for you

given how many commodities are cheaper in Australia than here I would have an educated guess the margins will also be LOWER.

Cool story. TLDR: many cafes suck at business.

Talk to retail staff a bit and you will find it the customers who suck more.

Handle9

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#3213316 2-Apr-2024 19:36

sir1963:
Handle9:

Cool story. TLDR: many cafes suck at business.

Talk to retail staff a bit and you will find it the customers who suck more.

So what? It’s irrelevant to the topic

lxsw20

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#3213325 2-Apr-2024 20:18

Man some of you lot need to calm the farm.

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#3213418 2-Apr-2024 23:49

tweake:

i don't need any evidence to support anything. this isn't a trail. its nothing but opinion.

for me i've lived it. take my word for it or not i don't give a damn.

You are claiming what you are saying is "standard practice", seems reasonable you'd have some examples, in order to make such claims. Obviously you don't, you probably shouldn't make such claims.

In what situation have you lived it? Which country, how long ago? Labour laws aren't swinging significantly in favour of employers any time soon. Most 'good' employers, understand that to remain competitive in a tight labour market, you can't be treating people like cattle, or hamsters on a wheel.

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#3213447 3-Apr-2024 07:00

Kyanar:

Numbers:

He and others quoted T1.5 AND a day in lieu. Some cafes close. They are numbers

"You and tdgeek are the ones making out like it's an entitled immoral stance that a surcharge could be a consideration as to which places to patronise."

No. Actually we were labelled entitled. Now you say we labelled you as entitled? Many here prefer to avoid evil surcharge cafes, we just dont see it that way, thats all. We see it as a fair charge to allow the cafes to go from a day when its T1.0 to effectively T2.5. Others disagree, thats fine. Cafes may surcharge, or no surcharge, or stay closed, thats fine.

"Why is it only people that disagree with you" You mention this a few times, but you dont like people disagreeing. I dont see him or I going off on moral rants, we just have an OPINION that we think its fine to surcharge. I am assuming that a forum discussion will have alternate views

I just dont get the anger

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#3213484 3-Apr-2024 09:43

MikeAqua:

I'm happy with the holidays. But the trading rules are out of date. We aren't living in a theocracy and our laws should reflect this.

I disagree. And it's not about being a theocracy.

The importance of Easter (and other long weekends) in NZ is that it allows people to do things together. For people who live far apart, it allows travelling time. It also allows events that take more than a day or two to take place. For this to work, it depends on all the participants being able to take the time off simultaneously. Easter, and to a lesser extent 3-day weekends, and to a lesser extent again weekends, are more valuable to a Kiwi than normal workdays.

As soon as you allow an employer to trade during Easter, you undermine the "getting together" aspect of Easter. If you aren't going to legislate on trading, then I think you need to legislate on pay.

So, if an employer wants to open any time during Easter (say after 5pm Thursday until 8am Tuesday), then they should pay large penalty rates (e.g. triple wage rates) for depriving their employees of what often is the only 4-day weekend in the year. Likewise, opening any time during a 3-day weekend should have higher penal rates than on other Saturdays or Sundays. Likewise, any Saturday or Sunday work should be paid at higher rates than normal weekdays.

An employer can then decide if they really need to open. If they do open, then everyone is (relatively) happy; the employer traded, and the employees got fat pay checks. If they don't open, the employer didn't pay out large wages, and the employees got the time to participate in social activities.

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#3213589 3-Apr-2024 12:58

frankv:

I disagree. And it's not about being a theocracy.

The importance of Easter (and other long weekends) in NZ is that it allows people to do things together. For people who live far apart, it allows travelling time. It also allows events that take more than a day or two to take place. For this to work, it depends on all the participants being able to take the time off simultaneously. Easter, and to a lesser extent 3-day weekends, and to a lesser extent again weekends, are more valuable to a Kiwi than normal workdays.

As soon as you allow an employer to trade during Easter, you undermine the "getting together" aspect of Easter. If you aren't going to legislate on trading, then I think you need to legislate on pay.

So, if an employer wants to open any time during Easter (say after 5pm Thursday until 8am Tuesday), then they should pay large penalty rates (e.g. triple wage rates) for depriving their employees of what often is the only 4-day weekend in the year. Likewise, opening any time during a 3-day weekend should have higher penal rates than on other Saturdays or Sundays. Likewise, any Saturday or Sunday work should be paid at higher rates than normal weekdays.

An employer can then decide if they really need to open. If they do open, then everyone is (relatively) happy; the employer traded, and the employees got fat pay checks. If they don't open, the employer didn't pay out large wages, and the employees got the time to participate in social activities.

I was mostly being cheeky in referring to a theocracy. However, I'd support an annual four-day weekend in the last weekend of March, where Friday and Monday are just regular public holidays. Remove reference to Easter from statutes. Easter can persist as a movable feast among Christians. Do something similar for xmas. People seem to be able to observe Deepavali, Ramadan, Ede, Lunar New Year, Hannukah and presumably all manner of festivals I don't know about without recognition in statute. That was also the case for Matariki until quite recently.

What you are really describing is a situation where everyone's choices are constrained, to facilitate one particular choice, which is to participate in get togethers. The presumption is that there is an overall preference for getting together and therefore that should displace many other choices.

People get 4 weeks annual leave per year, which they can utilise to hold get togethers. It just takes organisation. If I would like a four-day weekend, I take leave. Ms Aqua and I are going to the US with three other couples for 10 days later this year. Flights, hotels, and annual leave all organised without any public holidays being involved.

Personally, I think this is simple. Let people choose when they trade, choose when they purchase goods and services and choose what sort of people/businesses they want to work for.

Mike

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#3213802 3-Apr-2024 16:15

MikeAqua:

What you are really describing is a situation where everyone's choices are constrained, to facilitate one particular choice, which is to participate in get togethers. The presumption is that there is an overall preference for getting together and therefore that should displace many other choices.

Personally, I think this is simple. Let people choose when they trade, choose when they purchase goods and services and choose what sort of people/businesses they want to work for.

Yes, choice. Why this blind assumption that everyone wants to clump together? Some people hate their families. Some like being alone. Those that do want to spend time with annoying drunk uncles are free to do so. Those who don't should have an equal right to spend the day in their favourite kitchenware store.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3213812 3-Apr-2024 16:43

tdgeek:

He and others quoted T1.5 AND a day in lieu. Some cafes close. They are numbers

No, they aren't. He is demanding detailed numbers from other people while putting up none of his own. That's hypocracy.

No. Actually we were labelled entitled. Now you say we labelled you as entitled? Many here prefer to avoid evil surcharge cafes, we just dont see it that way, thats all. We see it as a fair charge to allow the cafes to go from a day when its T1.0 to effectively T2.5. Others disagree, thats fine. Cafes may surcharge, or no surcharge, or stay closed, thats fine.

No, actually, you weren't. At no point. The first accusation of entitlement was your mate sir1963, declaring that if you didn't like surcharges you were "entitled", and then the second was you.

"Why is it only people that disagree with you" You mention this a few times, but you dont like people disagreeing. I dont see him or I going off on moral rants, we just have an OPINION that we think its fine to surcharge. I am assuming that a forum discussion will have alternate views

It is fine. You're right. The whole basis of this debate is that someone said it annoyed them that places surcharged, which is understandable, since noone likes paying more. My whole opinion is if places want to open, or don't, that's their call. If they want to surcharge, or don't, that's also their call. If a place has a surcharge, I may or may not consider it among factors as to whether I'll patronise the place, as is my right. It is not "entitled" like you two claim to do that. And despite your claim that you and him are not going off on moral rants, you're the only people declaring that those who disagree with you are entitled.

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#3213818 3-Apr-2024 17:07

sir1963:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2024/03/analysis-why-6-is-too-cheap-for-a-coffee.html

There are some numbers for you

given how many commodities are cheaper in Australia than here I would have an educated guess the margins will also be LOWER.

The physical commodity cost of a coffee is actually a very small percentage of the price you pay,

Roasted beans are $30-50/kg - that's 30-50c per serve,

Milk is about $2/litre so for a 180ml serve you are looking at ~40c per serve

So the actual milky/caffeine goodness parts are 70-90 cents per cup.

The cost of retail hospo is all the other things, Rent, lighting, wages, equipment, chattels etc,

tdgeek

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#3213857 3-Apr-2024 19:21

Kyanar:

It is fine. You're right. The whole basis of this debate is that someone said it annoyed them that places surcharged, which is understandable, since noone likes paying more. My whole opinion is if places want to open, or don't, that's their call. If they want to surcharge, or don't, that's also their call. If a place has a surcharge, I may or may not consider it among factors as to whether I'll patronise the place, as is my right. It is not "entitled" like you two claim to do that. And despite your claim that you and him are not going off on moral rants, you're the only people declaring that those who disagree with you are entitled.

TBH I dont feel that sir or I stated or inferred we are entitled. While Im not going to trawl the posts IIRC we were seen/stated as entitled. I recall that as odd as why would two decide its ok to pay more at the cafe be entitled? End of the day if you want to argue, Im ok with that, but Ive been here a while as have you so I dont see the point, but up to you. All I know is that its not outrageous to state that I am ok with surcharges given T1.5 AND a day on lieu. Its quite a cost for a small business. New World etc can wear it based on their annual financials. If others see otherwise I have no issue. Its a debate, thats all it is.

Without wanting to incite anything, I copied this post early today. I could have thrown it here, but Im less interested in the fight but I'm interested in the discussion not the anti argumentative side of always being right. No, thats not aimed at you. Passion is a good thing, some here (not you) take that to the next level

This article has both views. Both views have valid points. So its not a right or wrong typical online argument/keyboard warrior scenario. Again, not aimed at you, just a general theme.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/businesses-ditch-unpopular-surcharge/W65KIBFZ76PERTNHHEPTJWW74M/

tweake

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#3213876 3-Apr-2024 20:06

at the end of the day, if you make people work on a public holiday (which is a holiday for everyone) then its no longer a public holiday. opening it up for business defeats the whole purpose.

Handle9

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#3213878 3-Apr-2024 20:12

tdgeek:

TBH I dont feel that sir or I stated or inferred we are entitled. While Im not going to trawl the posts IIRC we were seen/stated as entitled. I recall that as odd as why would two decide its ok to pay more at the cafe be entitled?

The accusation of entitlement was at people who didn't like surcharges.

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