Why does NZ continue to refuse to let actions have consequences?

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#1266934 24-Mar-2015 15:53

networkn: But you can't legally be punished for a crime you have not been convicted of.

Do these boys need to be convicted - which means "declared to be guilty of a criminal offence by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law"? Are you seriously suggesting an actual criminal trial is necessary, and that the school can only punish these boys if proven guilty by the New Zealand justice system? Is your name Shane Kennedy? Schools, and parents, punish children in their care for bad behaviour all the time.

And...

6FIEND: The boys do not dispute any of the reported facts around the incident. (I.e. They openly admit that they did it and that they know that what they did was wrong/stupid/illegal.) There are confessions, eye witnesses, video evidence, and formal police warnings.

They have admitted they rode the baggage carousel into a restricted area - what more is required? Even if you mean they need to be proven guilty by an investigation (not a trial) the boys have in effect plead guilty, therefore an investigation is unnecessary.

blakamin

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#1267149 24-Mar-2015 21:08

What gets me is that every teenage "future sports star" gets a wet bus ticket. Whereas anyone else would at least get juvenile court. It's a complete load of BS.

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#1267174 24-Mar-2015 22:16

blakamin: What gets me is that every teenage "future sports star" gets a wet bus ticket. Whereas anyone else would at least get juvenile court. It's a complete load of BS.

Must....love....sport...!

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#1272729 29-Mar-2015 10:01

blakamin: What gets me is that every teenage "future sports star" gets a wet bus ticket. Whereas anyone else would at least get juvenile court. It's a complete load of BS.

Problem is their performance on the water certainly doesn't lend any credence to the 'future sports star' notion.

It's now being reported the father of one of the boots misled the court (and by extension, the public) with his affidavit. He's claiming he believed what he wrote was true. However, with the position he previously held along with the obligations his son would have had to fulfill well prior to the Maadi Cup (ignoring the fact the son wasn't even rowing in any potentially qualifying events, which he would also have been well aware of) demonstrates, IMO, a deliberate deceit.

The way I see it: father & son sign a code of conduct and are well aware of the consequences of beaches. A significant beach occurred which occasioned the involvement of police and avsec. Admissions to the beach were also made. The school invoked the code of conduct. Seems fair enough to me.

These are not 10 year olds we're talking about. They're more than old enough to understand right from wrong and that there are consequences for wrong. At least they were - I wonder how much the realization of what lies and money can do have colored that perception?

Disclaimer:sent from a phone with auto-incorrect enabled, plus I'm not wearing my reading glasses.

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#1272763 29-Mar-2015 11:14

All shall be revealed in due time.

Thing is, spoilt rich people never learn and have no shame. So i doubt they will learn anything. Probably just carry on like nothing's happened and his kid continues to row and the team will do something silly next year like they did in the past.

pctek

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#1272771 29-Mar-2015 11:35

Not really a NZ psyche thing, more like parents who think their little precious can do no wrong.
Leads to Elliot Turner types....

And why do we have such lame prison sentences? Even Aussie has longer ones than us.
No wonder no-one cares....smack on the wrist and off they go.

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#1272978 29-Mar-2015 17:05

pctek: ... No wonder no-one cares....smack on the wrist and off they go.

You have forgotten that smacks on the wrist are strictly forbidden by legislation, if the offender is less than 18 years old.

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sir1963

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#1273028 29-Mar-2015 18:57

pctek: Not really a NZ psyche thing, more like parents who think their little precious can do no wrong.
Leads to Elliot Turner types....

And why do we have such lame prison sentences? Even Aussie has longer ones than us.
No wonder no-one cares....smack on the wrist and off they go.

There is no evidence that longer prison sentences do anything except cost the tax payer more money.

If harsh, punitive sentences and the death penalty were effective you would expect the USA to have lower crime figures than NZ,
it doesn't.

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#1273167 30-Mar-2015 08:37

sir1963: ... If harsh, punitive sentences and the death penalty were effective you would expect the USA to have lower crime figures than NZ, it doesn't.

Possibly, but the two countries have very different attitudes to gun ownership and law enforcement.

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#1273170 30-Mar-2015 08:46

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11425155

The selectors will likely never admit it, but this is almost certainly a variation of the Streisand Effect.

floydbloke

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#1273198 30-Mar-2015 09:57

sir1963: ...

There is no evidence that longer prison sentences do anything except cost the tax payer more money.

If harsh, punitive sentences and the death penalty were effective you would expect the USA to have lower crime figures than NZ,
it doesn't.

My, admittedly somewhat simplistic, understanding is that the justice system has two primary purposes:

Rehabilitate
Protect the public.

In the case of no.1, your point is totally valid. However, for no. 2 , the more criminals (who I could potentially become a victim of) locked away, the safer I feel.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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heylinb4nz

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#1273250 30-Mar-2015 10:45

floydbloke:
sir1963: ...

There is no evidence that longer prison sentences do anything except cost the tax payer more money.

If harsh, punitive sentences and the death penalty were effective you would expect the USA to have lower crime figures than NZ,
it doesn't.

My, admittedly somewhat simplistic, understanding is that the justice system has two primary purposes:

Rehabilitate
Protect the public.

In the case of no.1, your point is totally valid. However, for no. 2 , the more criminals (who I could potentially become a victim of) locked away, the safer I feel.

Our justice system fails miserably at both those objectives.

Realistically you don't need to spend $90,000 a year per prisoner, you could effectively run a tent style prison camp with 20ft high electrified fence and 4 towers (with a shoot to kill policy).

Essentially you could double all jail terms (keep the public safer for longer) and still have change for re-habilitation, and still save money. Unfortunately the do-gooders would complain.

sir1963

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#1273285 30-Mar-2015 11:17

heylinb4nz:
floydbloke:
sir1963: ...

There is no evidence that longer prison sentences do anything except cost the tax payer more money.

If harsh, punitive sentences and the death penalty were effective you would expect the USA to have lower crime figures than NZ,
it doesn't.

My, admittedly somewhat simplistic, understanding is that the justice system has two primary purposes:

Rehabilitate
Protect the public.

In the case of no.1, your point is totally valid. However, for no. 2 , the more criminals (who I could potentially become a victim of) locked away, the safer I feel.

Our justice system fails miserably at both those objectives.

Realistically you don't need to spend $90,000 a year per prisoner, you could effectively run a tent style prison camp with 20ft high electrified fence and 4 towers (with a shoot to kill policy).

Essentially you could double all jail terms (keep the public safer for longer) and still have change for re-habilitation, and still save money. Unfortunately the do-gooders would complain.

You come across the kind of person who believe the only way to train a dog is by beating it.

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#1273300 30-Mar-2015 11:36

6FIEND: "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11425155

The selectors will likely never admit it, but this is almost certainly a variation of the Streisand Effect.

I would love to see Shane Kennedy sue Rowing NZ ... surely his son deserves to be in the trials, the trial short list is not fair, and disproportionate to his skills and performances

networkn

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#1273340 30-Mar-2015 12:10

joker97:
6FIEND: "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11425155

The selectors will likely never admit it, but this is almost certainly a variation of the Streisand Effect.

I would love to see Shane Kennedy sue Rowing NZ ... surely his son deserves to be in the trials, the trial short list is not fair, and disproportionate to his skills and performances

Oh good grief.

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