Why does NZ continue to refuse to let actions have consequences?

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jamesrt

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#169691 23-Mar-2015 12:07

Raising the topic as it's timely because of the St Bedes rowing situation; but I failed to understand why NZ society continually seems to allow actions without consequences but at the same time complain that crime is rising / bad-things are happening / "it never used to be this way", etc.

What is it about the NZ psyche that refuses to accept that actions have consequences, and that sometimes people need to be held accountable for what they did. Sometimes, "accountable" means you miss out on doing things, because you've been behaving stupidly.

In my opinion, the kids that violated airport security should have been shown the inside of a holding cell overnight, and then sent home by the police - no way they should still be allowed to compete. Yes, it's a hard lesson, but one they'd be better off learning now.

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#1265653 23-Mar-2015 12:18

I agree.

there's no such thing as a winner or loser, right and wrong or actions and consequences.

There is, however: Being involved, having a go/experimenting and being a bit silly (whilst not wanting to damage one's self esteem, so we won't say that out loud).

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johnr

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#1265654 23-Mar-2015 12:20

They should of known better but I bet mummy and Daddy have lots of $$$ and think little Jonny could never do wrong,

Agree they should of been taken to the local police station locked up for a while and then made to get on the cheapest bus service back home, No flying home

nathan

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#1265655 23-Mar-2015 12:21

NZ is too PC

too many years of big government trying to fix everyone's problems have started to breed personal responsibility out of the population
Everything can be fixed with more rules, more policy, etc

spoilt little rich kids parents suing a high school? WTF?

johnr

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#1265656 23-Mar-2015 12:23

The Lucy Knight saga that happened in Northcote with the bag snatch (Not confirmed) but have heard Mum was driving the Get away car

tigercorp

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#1265658 23-Mar-2015 12:25

Its ridiculous to generalise that NZ society supports unaccountability.

Even your example is badly chosen as the school IS trying to enforce accountability and its only a couple of parents who are trying to avoid it.

surfisup1000

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#1265665 23-Mar-2015 12:34

tigercorp: Its ridiculous to generalise that NZ society supports unaccountability.

Even your example is badly chosen as the school IS trying to enforce accountability and its only a couple of parents who are trying to avoid it.

I assumed the OP was talking about the parents , as they are the ones that overturned the ban. Where did you see they are talking about the school? Maybe I am mistaken?

Either way, the parents should be thrown in jail for abysmal parenting -- they have no self respect or integrity.

And, this is a great example that NZ society supports unaccountability -- including both parents and our legal system.

Fred99

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#1265666 23-Mar-2015 12:34

Probably driven by the usual over-ambitious helicopter parents these days. I'd never heard of the Maadi Cup until we were mixing socially with conservative Chch parents of senior high school kids. It's quite the thing, apparently. The old school tie network in Chch is also strong - you'll probably find that the lawyers and justice of the high court considering the injunction would believe that being involved with the Maadi Cup was the pinnacle of their own non-academic school life, so depriving them from that would do irreparable harm, far outweighing the seriousness of their misdemeanors. St Bede's is a state integrated Catholic School - so unlike the usual contenders, doesn't require "privilege" (aka a lot of money) to attend. There's probably a feeling that the poor catholic boys should be given some slack - as they don't come from such "good homes".

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jamesrt

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#1265671 23-Mar-2015 12:37

tigercorp: Its ridiculous to generalise that NZ society supports unaccountability.

Even your example is badly chosen as the school IS trying to enforce accountability and its only a couple of parents who are trying to avoid it.

Actually, it was the fact that the HIGH COURT JUDGE allowed an injunction to override the school is where I think it went even more wrong. The judge should have thrown it out of court.

jamesrt

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#1265674 23-Mar-2015 12:40

surfisup1000: ...I assumed the OP was talking about the parents...

Had it been my child, I would have backed the school 100% on that particular call.

cruxis

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#1265678 23-Mar-2015 12:45

The NZ police to drop the warning now and charge them. Lets see the parents get them out of that one. They are clearly guilty.

The parents are litigious scum.

tigercorp

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#1265681 23-Mar-2015 12:48

jamesrt:
tigercorp: Its ridiculous to generalise that NZ society supports unaccountability.

Even your example is badly chosen as the school IS trying to enforce accountability and its only a couple of parents who are trying to avoid it.

Actually, it was the fact that the HIGH COURT JUDGE allowed an injunction to override the school is where I think it went even more wrong. The judge should have thrown it out of court.

I also agree that the judge should have thrown this out.

But while IANAL I suspect there's a legal process that has to be followed here and the lawyers for the kids/parents presented enough of an argument to ensure the judge follows the process.

All I'm saying is that because the law has to be followed (and it was the same in the case of the long hair) it doesn't mean that NZ society is failing or falling apart.

Fred99

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#1265696 23-Mar-2015 12:58

tigercorp:
jamesrt:
tigercorp: Its ridiculous to generalise that NZ society supports unaccountability.

Even your example is badly chosen as the school IS trying to enforce accountability and its only a couple of parents who are trying to avoid it.

Actually, it was the fact that the HIGH COURT JUDGE allowed an injunction to override the school is where I think it went even more wrong. The judge should have thrown it out of court.

I also agree that the judge should have thrown this out.

But while IANAL I suspect there's a legal process that has to be followed here and the lawyers for the kids/parents presented enough of an argument to ensure the judge follows the process.

All I'm saying is that because the law has to be followed (and it was the same in the case of the long hair) it doesn't mean that NZ society is failing or falling apart.

It was not the same in "the case of the long hair".
In that case, the school pupil was to be deprived of state education because of the way they looked. There's not one shred of evidence that school uniforms, dress codes and such rules on hair length have any impact at all on educational outcomes. When you leave school, there are no "laws" corresponding to such quaint and anachronistic "school rules", except in the case of heath and safety/hygiene in the workplace etc, but there certainly are laws controlling behaviour such as displayed by the St Bede's pupils.

michael001

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#1265698 23-Mar-2015 13:08

cruxis: The NZ police to drop the warning now and charge them. Lets see the parents get them out of that one. They are clearly guilty.

The parents are litigious scum.

Bang on the money - this gets results. This situation just needs to get the right eyes on it for the whole thing to be worked out.

A few years ago a friends wife was T-boned by a 18 year old girl at an intersection in Auckland. At the time she was all apologetic and admitted fault. Police never attended.

Roll forward three weeks and suddenly the girls father is involved and the girl is now claiming she is not at fault. Conversations with the father were pretty unpleasant and threatening - he was claiming to belong to this that and the other thing, and have friends at X, Y and Z. Filthy rich and used to getting his own way - that much was obvious. His daughters address was Herne Bay somewhere.

My friend was pretty upset, it was clear they just wanted to avoid paying both excesses for insurance.

My recommendation - ignore the insurance companies and make a Police complaint.

The police took the details and spoke to the witnesses who were present at the time and proceeded to prosecute the girl for various annoying offenses, followed swiftly by the girls insurance company paying for everything.

It's another 4 years before those charges will disappear from her record (clean slate)

A beautiful and just result and one that can be replicated here.

Tinshed

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#1265702 23-Mar-2015 13:13

Interestingly Stuff are reporting that one of the parents who sought the injunction is also chairman of the rowing team club. So it was one his sons that climbed onto the conveyor belt. Both names are now on Stuff. So years into the future when people Google their names, especially that of the son, they will see reference to this incident. Great, just great for him! His name will forever be associated with St Bede and the time he rode on a conveyor belt. Excellent parenting skills. Well done that man's father!

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DravidDavid

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#1265722 23-Mar-2015 13:26

michael001:
cruxis: The NZ police to drop the warning now and charge them. Lets see the parents get them out of that one. They are clearly guilty.

The parents are litigious scum.

Bang on the money - this gets results. This situation just needs to get the right eyes on it for the whole thing to be worked out.

A few years ago a friends wife was T-boned by a 18 year old girl at an intersection in Auckland. At the time she was all apologetic and admitted fault. Police never attended.

Roll forward three weeks and suddenly the girls father is involved and the girl is now claiming she is not at fault. Conversations with the father were pretty unpleasant and threatening - he was claiming to belong to this that and the other thing, and have friends at X, Y and Z. Filthy rich and used to getting his own way - that much was obvious. His daughters address was Herne Bay somewhere.

My friend was pretty upset, it was clear they just wanted to avoid paying both excesses for insurance.

My recommendation - ignore the insurance companies and make a Police complaint.

The police took the details and spoke to the witnesses who were present at the time and proceeded to prosecute the girl for various annoying offenses, followed swiftly by the girls insurance company paying for everything.

It's another 4 years before those charges will disappear from her record (clean slate)

A beautiful and just result and one that can be replicated here.

My brother was in a similar situation. Quite a serious crash because she failed to give way. To cut a long story short, the court and a female (yes female in this case is important) adjudicator split the blame 60/40, even though the girl admitted fault to begin with and retracted her guilt later. 60% being the girls fault, of course.

But while my brother had his car assessed for current market value with all paperwork in court, the adjudicator then asked the female driver and she just came up with a ridiculous figure off the top of her head which the adjudicator took as gospel. Highly biased. He regrets not getting the police involved from the start. It turned in to months of problems and annoyances. It didn't help that my brother wasn't allowed a lawyer or vocal support person and had no idea how to defend himself in a court situation. The girl just played the "Poor Me" card and won.

Tinshed: So years into the future when people Google their names, especially that of the son, they will see reference to this incident. Great, just great for him! His name will forever be associated with St Bede and the time he rode on a conveyor belt. Excellent parenting skills. Well done that man's father!

Your comment will probably be listed in position number two or three on Google too! Haha :)

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