Public Holiday Trading Rules

Forums › Off topic › Public Holiday Trading Rules - Discussion

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11

4089 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3213883 3-Apr-2024 20:25

tdgeek:

TBH I dont feel that sir or I stated or inferred we are entitled. While Im not going to trawl the posts IIRC we were seen/stated as entitled. I recall that as odd as why would two decide its ok to pay more at the cafe be entitled? End of the day if you want to argue, Im ok with that, but Ive been here a while as have you so I dont see the point, but up to you. All I know is that its not outrageous to state that I am ok with surcharges given T1.5 AND a day on lieu. Its quite a cost for a small business. New World etc can wear it based on their annual financials. If others see otherwise I have no issue. Its a debate, thats all it is.

You recall incorrectly. The first occurrence of anyone calling someone else entitled was sir1963 saying "So people want to get the "benefits" of working those days, but some self entitled customers object to paying for those higher costs...." - despite the fact no-one actually said a business did not have a right to surcharge if they want, or even that it was unreasonable - just that when making a choice which place to go to, that would probably factor in.

The second occurrence was when you yourself said "Disagree. Who is entitled? The few here that see covering actual extra costs is fair or those that dont want their wallet affected while the cafe owners wear the extra cost?" - despite the fact that at no point did anyone call you entitled in the first place, so it's clear you were taking aim at everyone who disagreed with you and calling them entitled, with both of you painting your opposition in the worst possible light with inflammatory wording.

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214032 4-Apr-2024 07:06

Kyanar:

You recall incorrectly. The first occurrence of anyone calling someone else entitled was sir1963 saying "So people want to get the "benefits" of working those days, but some self entitled customers object to paying for those higher costs...." - despite the fact no-one actually said a business did not have a right to surcharge if they want, or even that it was unreasonable - just that when making a choice which place to go to, that would probably factor in.

The second occurrence was when you yourself said "Disagree. Who is entitled? The few here that see covering actual extra costs is fair or those that dont want their wallet affected while the cafe owners wear the extra cost?" - despite the fact that at no point did anyone call you entitled in the first place, so it's clear you were taking aim at everyone who disagreed with you and calling them entitled, with both of you painting your opposition in the worst possible light with inflammatory wording.

Is it ok in justifying why we feel surcharges are fine? At least that is consistent. Then we read that we will avoid surcharge cafes (rip off, dont need it, etc) then justify that with its consumer choice

People here disagree with the alternate side, but only people that disagree with you need to be called out? Seems so.

No comments on this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/businesses-ditch-unpopular-surcharge/W65KIBFZ76PERTNHHEPTJWW74M/

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18663 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3214099 4-Apr-2024 10:54

The thing about the surcharge, or any other charge, is that individual consumers are at the bottom of the ditch. Everyone is raising their prices, pleading increased costs. The dentist goes up. Groceries are more expensive. Official fees increase. Mortgages go through the roof. Pet food is unaffordable. And so on and so on. Everyone who raises their price says they have no choice, but every increase filters down to the individual consumer at the bottom, who is expected to carry all of it and cannot pass costs further down the line. The buck really does stop there and it shrinks more and more all the time.

Why should someone getting hit with machine gun charges from all directions give a damn about a café or bar or any other business weeping over their increased costs? The one at the bottom of the ditch is the one with the real increased costs. When you can no longer afford to exist you just stop buying things. Maybe the surchargers should think about that for awhile.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

Networkn
32354 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214108 4-Apr-2024 11:09

tdgeek:

Is it ok in justifying why we feel surcharges are fine? At least that is consistent. Then we read that we will avoid surcharge cafes (rip off, dont need it, etc) then justify that with its consumer choice

People here disagree with the alternate side, but only people that disagree with you need to be called out? Seems so.

No comments on this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/businesses-ditch-unpopular-surcharge/W65KIBFZ76PERTNHHEPTJWW74M/

The whole point that some people (You and Sir primarily) are missing, is not paying the surcharge, shouldn't need justification, nor the veiled inference that not doing so, is morally wrong (termed as entitlement as has been quoted in a prior post).

I posted the original comment that started this whole topic, saying it annoys me when I ask for a list of places not doing public holiday surcharge and I get lectured on the moral and financial implications of it. Low and Behold, I get lectured on exact thing.

I am not stupid, I understand how money works, I am exercising my right as a consumer to support places that don't have a surcharge. I didn't complain that places doing surcharges are 'wrong' or anything, just asked for a list of places.

Simple question, simple answer. Anything else is unnecessary and annoying.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3214112 4-Apr-2024 11:18

tdgeek:

Is it ok in justifying why we feel surcharges are fine? At least that is consistent. Then we read that we will avoid surcharge cafes (rip off, dont need it, etc) then justify that with its consumer choice

People here disagree with the alternate side, but only people that disagree with you need to be called out? Seems so.

You and sir1963 are being called out for using inflammatory wording to describe the people that disagree with you (such as "self-entitled") while no-one holding the opposing position are doing the same - so yes, only you need to be called out. You can hold an opposing position without villainising everyone who disagrees with you.

And yes of course it's ok to justify why you feel surcharges are fine. Like I said - it's a business choice what they want to do (except where it's not, which is to @Rikkitic's point) and ultimately a consumer can respond to that choice with their own choice.

Domino's charges a surcharge - I wouldn't patronise them on a public holiday, given they've been caught red handed exploiting and underpaying staff. The same goes for a number of CBD cafe/restaurants.

My local cafe doesn't, but even if they did charge a reasonable one, I'd be fine with that given they are a family-run establishment that provide good friendly service.

Another local cafe doesn't open, because it's run by a small team, and I guess they just want to take the time off - that's their choice too and it's perfectly fine.

Probably the more annoying thing about surcharges is that it feels like buying something in the US - the price you see isn't the price you pay. That part does irritate me. For credit card payments it's like meh, I get it. But when paying cash it's annoying if the surcharge is the difference between having enough cash in the wallet vs not. And even worse again - random coin change (ok, yeah I'd probably just dump some in the conveniently placed coin glass they have at the counter).

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214121 4-Apr-2024 11:49

Kyanar:

tdgeek:

Is it ok in justifying why we feel surcharges are fine? At least that is consistent. Then we read that we will avoid surcharge cafes (rip off, dont need it, etc) then justify that with its consumer choice

People here disagree with the alternate side, but only people that disagree with you need to be called out? Seems so.

You and sir1963 are being called out for using inflammatory wording to describe the people that disagree with you (such as "self-entitled") while no-one holding the opposing position are doing the same - so yes, only you need to be called out. You can hold an opposing position without villainising everyone who disagrees with you.

And yes of course it's ok to justify why you feel surcharges are fine. Like I said - it's a business choice what they want to do (except where it's not, which is to @Rikkitic's point) and ultimately a consumer can respond to that choice with their own choice.

Domino's charges a surcharge - I wouldn't patronise them on a public holiday, given they've been caught red handed exploiting and underpaying staff. The same goes for a number of CBD cafe/restaurants.

My local cafe doesn't, but even if they did charge a reasonable one, I'd be fine with that given they are a family-run establishment that provide good friendly service.

Another local cafe doesn't open, because it's run by a small team, and I guess they just want to take the time off - that's their choice too and it's perfectly fine.

Probably the more annoying thing about surcharges is that it feels like buying something in the US - the price you see isn't the price you pay. That part does irritate me. For credit card payments it's like meh, I get it. But when paying cash it's annoying if the surcharge is the difference between having enough cash in the wallet vs not. And even worse again - random coin change (ok, yeah I'd probably just dump some in the conveniently placed coin glass they have at the counter).

Assuming we can all agree that its fine for any of us to have an opinion, why is it that when I or Sir have our opinion we get bagged for disagreeing? When you guys disagree also, but that's seemingly ok. Its actually not to do with the topic its one side can state their opinion and that's deemed correct so anyone else who disagrees is wrong, that's the issue. Ive said a few times they are just opposing opinions, but again we don't agree so that's problem

Early on there was quite vocal issues about avoiding surcharge cafes, such as ripoffs, not needed, suggesting they become a landlord which is what Sir is, and he's been bagged for that (he then called out name calling or whatever he said and that was ignored/not noticed), and off course, Cafe owners suck at business, or words to that effect. So I wouldn't say its morally pure and nice on the anti side (referring to the bold above) and loud and outrageous on the pro side , so I posted an article that covered commentary for cafes on both sides of the debate, but no posts on that, which is interesting

As to your other points that I quoted, I agree on many of them, its not an ideal situation, but cafes are generally tiny businesses, so I can see why they generally feel that its needed (while some also chooses not to have surcharges) they have little wiggle room IMHO

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214123 4-Apr-2024 11:51

Rikkitic:

The thing about the surcharge, or any other charge, is that individual consumers are at the bottom of the ditch. Everyone is raising their prices, pleading increased costs. The dentist goes up. Groceries are more expensive. Official fees increase. Mortgages go through the roof. Pet food is unaffordable. And so on and so on. Everyone who raises their price says they have no choice, but every increase filters down to the individual consumer at the bottom, who is expected to carry all of it and cannot pass costs further down the line. The buck really does stop there and it shrinks more and more all the time.

Why should someone getting hit with machine gun charges from all directions give a damn about a café or bar or any other business weeping over their increased costs? The one at the bottom of the ditch is the one with the real increased costs. When you can no longer afford to exist you just stop buying things. Maybe the surchargers should think about that for awhile.

Banning Public Holiday surcharges would fix that

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3214128 4-Apr-2024 11:59

This issue could sorted if we removed the statutory holidays for Easter and Christmas and those stat holidays added to annual leave and say observance days. Folks could take the leave as they see fit for what observance they wish. We are a culturally diverse society and have statutory designated holidays for one belief is out of place. Protection can be added into the holidays act for staff requesting these observance days and businesses can roster around this and not need to pay penal rates and apply surcharges.

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214130 4-Apr-2024 11:59

End of the day, some feel the surcharges are fair and reasonable, some don't. We could ALL learn to tone down the bagging, some examples I posted above, and including the words entitled

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214132 4-Apr-2024 12:02

MikeB4:

This issue could sorted if we removed the statutory holidays for Easter and Christmas and those stat holidays added to annual leave and say observance days. Folks could take the leave as they see fit for what observance they wish. We are a culturally diverse society and have statutory designated holidays for one belief is out of place. Protection can be added into the holidays act for staff requesting these observance days and businesses can roster around this and not need to pay penal rates and apply surcharges.

Makes sense. Just reclassify the 3.5 days as a weekend day. No surcharges and no penal rates.

rugrat

3107 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3214148 4-Apr-2024 12:41

MikeB4:

This issue could sorted if we removed the statutory holidays for Easter and Christmas and those stat holidays added to annual leave and say observance days. Folks could take the leave as they see fit for what observance they wish. We are a culturally diverse society and have statutory designated holidays for one belief is out of place. Protection can be added into the holidays act for staff requesting these observance days and businesses can roster around this and not need to pay penal rates and apply surcharges.

What day do kids take off school. The observance day or the day parents chose to have as the other day? Without penal rates I can see a lot of places being sort stuffed if taking on observance days is allowed and no penal rates.

I don’t see a problem with surcharges. It either works for a business with customer volumes, or charging reduces profits by more then charge brings in if volume drops to much, up to the business to decide and for people to decide if pay it, or go to different place, or different day.

Christmas Day The whole family gets together from multiple generations, and is generally the only day everyone gets to see each other as most people have this day off at same time.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3214151 4-Apr-2024 12:54

@rugrat what day are non Christian or non theist kids allowed to take off? Why should one group be afforded a day or day and why should that day or days be forced on all. Why should businesses be forced by law to observe just one groups day or days and have to account for it.

rugrat

3107 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3214217 4-Apr-2024 14:40

MikeB4:

what day are non Christian or non theist kids allowed to take off? Why should one group be afforded a day or day and why should that day or days be forced on all. Why should businesses be forced by law to observe just one groups day or days and have to account for it.

Christmas Day is one that most get off. It has been the tradition in NZ. People don’t have to have a religious significance to it to enjoy the day off together, one of the few days most of the population can have off together at same time.

I don’t understand why it is necessary to be able to shop 365 days a year. If money is not spent today, it’s there to be spent another day.

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3214220 4-Apr-2024 14:48

rugrat:

I don’t understand why it is necessary to be able to shop 365 days a year. If money is not spent today, it’s there to be spent another day.

Yeah.

I went to New World Easter Saturday, quite busy, a lovely elderly lady said to me, "it's closed tomorrow" I guess everyone, even those that had back in their day, 5 shopping days plus Friday night in the CBD, have got used to all day every day now

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3214250 4-Apr-2024 16:05

rugrat:

Christmas Day is one that most get off. It has been the tradition in NZ. People don’t have to have a religious significance to it to enjoy the day off together, one of the few days most of the population can have off together at same time.

I don’t understand why it is necessary to be able to shop 365 days a year. If money is not spent today, it’s there to be spent another day.

"People don’t have to have a religious significance to it to enjoy the day off together" Exactly so why restrict it to a religious event that is celebrated by a portion of our community. Add the days to leave entitlement and it can be taken at a time that is significant to the taker.

As for shops being shut, Aotearoa gets a significant GDP and foreign trade gain from tourism. It is counter productive to have businesses closed when tourists are here to spend. Bricks and mortar outlets are closed by law yet online outlets are trading this unfair.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11