Jury service selectors becoming very aggressive

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#1076802 30-Jun-2014 07:45

MaxLV:
eracode:
DjShadow:
eracode: I would love to know exactly how they select jury candidates. I am 62 and have been summoned once - in 1974. Some much younger people I worked with were summoned several times over the last 5 - 10 years.

Electoral Roll is where they draw names from, they have summoned me 4 times so far I think incl once when I was in the stand-down period from last time I served.

I know the names come from the Electoral Roll but what I don't understand is how some people never get called (or once in 40 years in my case) and others get called almost every year. Doesn't quite sound like the Laws of Probability are in play here.

Random (chance) selection. Do you also wonder why most people who buy lotto tickets dont win anything?

Yep - I think I understand how lotto works. But I simply do not believe that jury selection is really a random chance selection process. Do some people never win lotto in 40 years and other people win it every year for eight years in a row? There's more in play here.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

MikeB4

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#1076807 30-Jun-2014 07:57

It maybe higher tech now I don't know but just a few years ago i visited the high court they had a barrel that they turned and drew the names. It really was random. It was quite cool actually.

eracode

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#1076809 30-Jun-2014 08:01

KiwiNZ: It maybe higher tech now I don't know but just a few years ago i visited the high court they had a barrel that they turned and drew the names. It really was random. It was quite cool actually.

But was that to select the jury from the pool of people who had already been summoned and who were waiting in the court? I was talking about the initial selection of names to whom summonses are sent.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

MikeB4

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#1076810 30-Jun-2014 08:06

eracode:
KiwiNZ: It maybe higher tech now I don't know but just a few years ago i visited the high court they had a barrel that they turned and drew the names. It really was random. It was quite cool actually.

But was that to select the jury from the pool of people who had already been summoned and who were waiting in the court? I was talking about the initial selection of names to whom summonses are sent.

This was for the summons, it was a much bigger container to the one used for the panel.

Handle9

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#1076811 30-Jun-2014 08:07

eracode:
Yep - I think I understand how lotto works. But I simply do not believe that jury selection is really a random chance selection process. Do some people never win lotto in 40 years and other people win it every year for eight years in a row? There's more in play here.

This is exactly how random chance works. Some people get called lots, some never. It's a normal distribution where most people fall in the middle and there are outliers at either side..

eracode

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#1076816 30-Jun-2014 08:35

I believe that in South Africa they have no jury trials at all. Oscar P is being heard in front of a single judge. Maybe the SA position is because of still-underlying racial division coupled with an imbalance in proportions of the races, making it difficult to get impartial jurors for many cases. [> OT]

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sxz

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#1076817 30-Jun-2014 08:38

The law is not an ass. If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads. That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society. If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?

Referring to randomness - I don't believe it's ever quite random. For starters you need to be enrolled to vote with a current address -or you wont receive a notice. I wonder how many people have moved, missed a notice and gotten in trouble (or not)? All lawyers & judges are excused. Is anyone else? Finally, I suspect that if you are excused for a good reason, you are put in a short list for next time, so if you are excused you are more likely to be called up again to make sure you are able doing your duty.

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jarledb

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#1076823 30-Jun-2014 09:00

Bung:
Friends had two German tourists at their homestay. They slept early and got up around 3am to work remotely back in Germany.

I work on the same time zone as Germany and will not typically get up at 3 am to work. That would translate to 3 pm in summer and 1 pm in winter in Europe.

I typically make sure to deal with meetings and communications from 8 pm - 12 am (during summer) and 6 pm - 12 am (during winter). Which gives me work hours (for that type of thing) between 8 am - 12 pm and 8 am - 2 pm (local time) in winter.

I wonder if one would get excused out of the jury if a work emergency develops while in there? Not that it would be a problem for me since the time difference would make it outside of regular business hours in Europe.

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nakedmolerat

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#1076825 30-Jun-2014 09:18

eracode:
MaxLV:
eracode:
DjShadow:
eracode: I would love to know exactly how they select jury candidates. I am 62 and have been summoned once - in 1974. Some much younger people I worked with were summoned several times over the last 5 - 10 years.

Electoral Roll is where they draw names from, they have summoned me 4 times so far I think incl once when I was in the stand-down period from last time I served.

I know the names come from the Electoral Roll but what I don't understand is how some people never get called (or once in 40 years in my case) and others get called almost every year. Doesn't quite sound like the Laws of Probability are in play here.

Random (chance) selection. Do you also wonder why most people who buy lotto tickets dont win anything?

Yep - I think I understand how lotto works. But I simply do not believe that jury selection is really a random chance selection process. Do some people never win lotto in 40 years and other people win it every year for eight years in a row? There's more in play here.

Why don't you write to them and ask if they can let you to become a career jury?

afe66

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#1076835 30-Jun-2014 09:26

(lighthearted questions)

Isnt jury duty one of those things we have to do as part of living in our society ?
Like paying tax..

A difficulty for some but an obligation we shouldn't be able to get out of otherwise juries will not reflect our society.

Perhaps the system should be improved with earlier notification.
Ie you have 3 months notice to get your affairs in order / arrange cover.

Is the problem just money or are our jobs more important ?

For those who are too busy with work commitments, how are you planning to cope with illness or an operation.
Could income insurance cover something like this ?

A.

networkn

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#1076839 30-Jun-2014 09:35

sxz: The law is not an ass. If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads. That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society. If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?

Referring to randomness - I don't believe it's ever quite random. For starters you need to be enrolled to vote with a current address -or you wont receive a notice. I wonder how many people have moved, missed a notice and gotten in trouble (or not)? All lawyers & judges are excused. Is anyone else? Finally, I suspect that if you are excused for a good reason, you are put in a short list for next time, so if you are excused you are more likely to be called up again to make sure you are able doing your duty.

If I am accused of a crime, I want a jury comprised of a specific type of person, not of all sorts of people :) That's why lawyers spend so much time on Jury selection :)

sxz

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#1076849 30-Jun-2014 09:57

networkn:
sxz: The law is not an ass. If all the people with important jobs could write in and get off Jury duty, all Jury's would be comprised of retiree's, beneficiaries and stay-at-home mums and dads. That's why they are getting more and more forceful with you - they do not want to give you a get out of jury free pass, you are an important part of the cross section of society. If you were accused of something would you want a full cross section of society, including those intelligent hard workers?

Can you tell me a better way of doing it?

Referring to randomness - I don't believe it's ever quite random. For starters you need to be enrolled to vote with a current address -or you wont receive a notice. I wonder how many people have moved, missed a notice and gotten in trouble (or not)? All lawyers & judges are excused. Is anyone else? Finally, I suspect that if you are excused for a good reason, you are put in a short list for next time, so if you are excused you are more likely to be called up again to make sure you are able doing your duty.

If I am accused of a crime, I want a jury comprised of a specific type of person, not of all sorts of people :) That's why lawyers spend so much time on Jury selection :)

That's actually a very good point. If I was on trial there is no way if want a jury. Give me a judge any day. You can't tell me your ordinary jury member isn't biased, or doesn't zone out and stop listening during the day, or says they understand something very complex when they don't because they are too embarrassed to ask about it again.

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
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#1076873 30-Jun-2014 10:18

Handle9:
eracode:
Yep - I think I understand how lotto works. But I simply do not believe that jury selection is really a random chance selection process. Do some people never win lotto in 40 years and other people win it every year for eight years in a row? There's more in play here.

This is exactly how random chance works. Some people get called lots, some never. It's a normal distribution where most people fall in the middle and there are outliers at either side..

Actually I did Stats to second year at Uni - I understand normal curves and probability theory very well. What I'm saying is that I just do not believe they are in force here. Lotto - yes. Jury selection - no. i.e. there are some other factors or overlays interfering with the pure randomness.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

eracode

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#1076878 30-Jun-2014 10:27

nakedmolerat:
eracode:
MaxLV:
eracode:
DjShadow:
eracode: I would love to know exactly how they select jury candidates. I am 62 and have been summoned once - in 1974. Some much younger people I worked with were summoned several times over the last 5 - 10 years.

Electoral Roll is where they draw names from, they have summoned me 4 times so far I think incl once when I was in the stand-down period from last time I served.

I know the names come from the Electoral Roll but what I don't understand is how some people never get called (or once in 40 years in my case) and others get called almost every year. Doesn't quite sound like the Laws of Probability are in play here.

Random (chance) selection. Do you also wonder why most people who buy lotto tickets dont win anything?

Yep - I think I understand how lotto works. But I simply do not believe that jury selection is really a random chance selection process. Do some people never win lotto in 40 years and other people win it every year for eight years in a row? There's more in play here.

Why don't you write to them and ask if they can let you to become a career jury?

TBH - all things being equal (and assuming unlike the OP I could say 'no' if I had a holiday booked or something) I really wouldn't mind doing jury duty every six or twelve months. I have the time and the inclination to do it.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

BTR

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#1076894 30-Jun-2014 10:36

Jury service has always been a bee in my bonnet, I've been called for the last 3 years. What rubs me up the wrong way is that a law abiding person has to take time off work because of some filthy scum criminal and I can't remember 100% but pretty sure if you do manage to get some compensation for your time is below minimum wage... so you are being screwed over by the criminal and the govt.

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