School uniform enigma

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#3189548 2-Feb-2024 08:48

Those involved with school boards etc are a clique of usually middle class (for the record I am middle class) individuals somewhat out of touch with realities of life living on the minimum wage or less. If they are so keen on it then let them fund it.

I found while at MSD that uniforms are a major barrier for those stuck in poverty trap communities around Aotearoa from moving to find employment or better housing etc etc.

mudguard

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#3189575 2-Feb-2024 09:40

I can't say I have an issue with them. I grew up middle class and had to wear a pretty formal uniform at a state school. I shudder to think what the wool blazer cost. That said, I see the school has done away with them. I also don't have kids so won't be paying for any.
We had all the old rules, clean shaven, no hair dye etc. I don't really feel too bad about it. I certainly recall mufti days and the differences between the haves and have nots though.

Perhaps if it was all reasonably priced it would be fine.

Handsomedan

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#3189609 2-Feb-2024 11:44

I've already said it, but a cheap, standardised uniform of polo and shorts/pants/skirts made by a workwear company or similar, easily obtainable at a local store would certainly help with the issue of affordability.

Some of the lower decile primary schools in my area have basic uniforms that are available at Postie stores or The Warehouse and they're not expensive or silly looking.

I also understand where @MikeB4 is coming from - when there's a choice between food and a uniform, it's going to be food - and the kids aren't going to go to school.

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#3189632 2-Feb-2024 13:14

Handle9: School uniform policies are set by the board of trustees. The school administrators do what the board instructs, not the other way around.

In reality the relationship between boards and administrators and teaching staff has push and pull both ways.

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#3189639 2-Feb-2024 13:41

Uniforms tend to come with a lot of silly and petty 19th century nonsense rules about hair length and colour and all that. Why on earth ban bottle blondes, dreadlocks ,braids, or long hair on boys. It makes no sense. Those kind of rules are long out of step with the real world. 90% of the parents see nothing wrong with it or they would not allow the kid to do it in the first place. It's just arbitrary rule making for the sake of rules.

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#3189703 2-Feb-2024 17:53

gzt:
Handle9: School uniform policies are set by the board of trustees. The school administrators do what the board instructs, not the other way around.

In reality the relationship between boards and administrators and teaching staff has push and pull both ways.

The principal and staff rep sit on the BOT but the responsibility for policies is the BOT. Of course there is discussion and input but boards can and do over rule what the principal or staff want.

KiwiSurfer

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#3189715 2-Feb-2024 20:11

Handle9:

The principal and staff rep sit on the BOT but the responsibility for policies is the BOT. Of course there is discussion and input but boards can and do over rule what the principal or staff want.

The reality in most (if not all) schools are not at all how you describe. The reality is the day to day operations of the school is largely directed by management which the board has fairly limited input to -- usually only very high level decision making at meetings once a month. It gets worse as the school get larger as usually the boards will start delegating more and more of the operational decisions to the management and focus only on the high level "strategic" stuff. By the time you get to 1,000+ students boards have no time for detail and just rubber stamp whatever is proposed by the management e.g. they won't bother going line by line through the budget and just accept whatever is proposed knowing it's worth going into that level of detail. Most management are smart enough to get the mood of the room and make proposals to the board that they know will be accepted by most of the members. Most school board members have little training and usually they don't understand what they can actually do, so for better or worse the board as at worse just rubber stamp everything and at best they challenge the management but end up going their way as they don't know how to make change happen. As has been mentioned members are often the more well off people who don't understand the reality of life for the people on the other side of the train tracks so they are often happy to just maintain the status quo and be 'yes' mens approving whatever the management come up with.

And I say all of the above as a former board member and someone who has worked in the education system (so I've literally been on both sides of the fence). Not a crticism of people who give up their time to work on school boards, just the grim reality of how school boards work. It's no where near how you have described it several times in this thread. In the perfect world yes but this is reality.

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Handle9

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#3189734 2-Feb-2024 20:53

It depends. “Normally” boards and management work together and are reasonably aligned. Some boards are good, some are as useful as a chocolate teacup.

As you say a smart principal will listen to what the majority of the school community want. Most of the time there is no desire to change things like uniform policies.

Some boards are rubber stamps, some are really rather fractious between the principal and the board. It depends on the makeup of the board and particularly the relationship with the chair. My wife has been staff rep on a really fractious and difficult board which ended up with the principal eventually moving on.

When it goes really bad then the MOE can have to appoint a commissioner, which happens rarely but also annually.

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#3189738 2-Feb-2024 20:58

Our kids former primary school is moving TO uniforms not away from them. Polled by the community and school members it was heavily in favour of doing so. The principal was only prepared to entertain the idea if the uniform was entirely generic though, except for the jersey and that's optional.

I really applaud the well thought out approach.

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#3189759 2-Feb-2024 22:57

networkn:

Our kids former primary school is moving TO uniforms not away from them. Polled by the community and school members it was heavily in favour of doing so. The principal was only prepared to entertain the idea if the uniform was entirely generic though, except for the jersey and that's optional.

I really applaud the well thought out approach.

What did the kids think? Did anyone bother to ask them?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Handle9

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#3189760 2-Feb-2024 23:01

Rikkitic:
networkn:

Our kids former primary school is moving TO uniforms not away from them. Polled by the community and school members it was heavily in favour of doing so. The principal was only prepared to entertain the idea if the uniform was entirely generic though, except for the jersey and that's optional.

I really applaud the well thought out approach.

What did the kids think? Did anyone bother to ask them?

Do you care? If they thought it was great you’d still oppose it.

neb

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#3189761 2-Feb-2024 23:03

Handsomedan:
I've never understood how Bisley or Yakka workwear, which is functional and hardwearing is so cheap compared to a lot of poorly designed, shoddily made school uniforms.

Because X-brand workwear is made to be competitive in the market while school uniforms are made to maximally exploit a monopoly position. It's the same reason why consumers got such great value for money and a wide product range during Muldoon-era protectionism.

networkn

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#3189762 2-Feb-2024 23:11

Rikkitic:

What did the kids think? Did anyone bother to ask them?

Of that I am not sure, but both my kids strongly prefer a school uniform having attended schools which offer both, they were both students there.

Knowing this principal as well as I do, seeing him at the school gate every single day talking to the kids and parents, I believe he would have consulted kids, perhaps in a less formal manner.

How many kids have YOU asked about how they feel about school uniforms?

Rikkitic

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#3189763 2-Feb-2024 23:15

Handle9:

Do you care? If they thought it was great you’d still oppose it.

It would be polite to ask since they have to wear the bloody things.

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Rikkitic

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#3189764 2-Feb-2024 23:17

networkn:

Of that I am not sure, but both my kids strongly prefer a school uniform having attended schools which offer both, they were both students there.

Good on your kids. Nice that they had a choice. How many others do?

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