Public Holiday Trading Rules

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#3214254 4-Apr-2024 16:28

frankv: As soon as you allow an employer to trade during Easter, you undermine the "getting together" aspect of Easter.

I particularly like the whole country aspect of that. It used to be common every weekend. Then it was Xmas and New Year. Imo now to an extent it's only Easter. I think in some sense there is less social cohesion and mixing because of this.

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#3214258 4-Apr-2024 16:34

tdgeek:

Assuming we can all agree that its fine for any of us to have an opinion, why is it that when I or Sir have our opinion we get bagged for disagreeing?

__SNIP__

For one reason and one reason only. That reason being, that when you both espoused your opinion, you called people who disagreed with you (on holiday surcharges) entitled. It's absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, it's a matter of consumer choice. There would have been no issue if not for that simple difference.

Entitlement is a derogatory term in this context, you are basically saying that someone who doesn't want to pay a surcharge is lesser, than someone who happily pays it. Furthermore to help demonstrate why this is false, if two retailers have the same exact identical product for sale, but one is $10 cheaper than the other, if I buy from the cheaper retailer, I am entitled, because I am preventing from allowing the retailer from making more margin.

There is no insult happening back the other way, I don't consider you lesser or more of a human being because you are happy to pay a surcharge, I don't think you are stupid because you didn't get it 'cheaper'. I am simply saying, I will give my business to retailers who don't charge a surcharge. You do you, without recrimination.

You can have your opinion, you can't label people entitled if they disagree with you (in this context).

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#3214285 4-Apr-2024 19:19

networkn:

tdgeek:

Assuming we can all agree that its fine for any of us to have an opinion, why is it that when I or Sir have our opinion we get bagged for disagreeing?

__SNIP__

For one reason and one reason only. That reason being, that when you both espoused your opinion, you called people who disagreed with you (on holiday surcharges) entitled. It's absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, it's a matter of consumer choice. There would have been no issue if not for that simple difference.

Entitlement is a derogatory term in this context, you are basically saying that someone who doesn't want to pay a surcharge is lesser, than someone who happily pays it. Furthermore to help demonstrate why this is false, if two retailers have the same exact identical product for sale, but one is $10 cheaper than the other, if I buy from the cheaper retailer, I am entitled, because I am preventing from allowing the retailer from making more margin.

There is no insult happening back the other way, I don't consider you lesser or more of a human being because you are happy to pay a surcharge, I don't think you are stupid because you didn't get it 'cheaper'. I am simply saying, I will give my business to retailers who don't charge a surcharge. You do you, without recrimination.

You can have your opinion, you can't label people entitled if they disagree with you (in this context).

I get that. yes he and I did offer the entitled comment. In all seriousness, it can be seen as "precious", so not acceptable. I will wear that, although I dont think I "said" that but I inferred that. Sir did say that.

What I dont accept is two things.

There is no insult happening back the other way

I posted "some" examples. If you want me to trawl the posts and thats not a big deal, where I can list the unacceptable posts he and I made, which is around entitled, inferred or stated, and the other posts from the anti surcharge people I can happily do that.

2. Consumer choice. Yes we/I/all of us get that. The early posts had references to ripoffs/not needed, and so on. And so on. The efforts some will go to to avoid the inferred unfair and unreasonable surcharges. (and later diluted as I walked) Thats fine, we all have a stance. We all want to justify it. What I dont appreciate is that if anyone is anti surcharges, and they state the ongoing unfair/not needed/ripoffs, then thats minimised by consumer choice, that I find very weak TBH. The fact is someone may find the surcharges unfair and unreasonable and ripoffs, so they boycott the cafes that have surcharges. Thats fine. But dont hide behind Consumer Choice. While this is what you have posted to a degree this is not aimed at you. You got roasted by your foodie forums. That doesnt mean you are wrong and they are right, its just ONE sector of opinions. Hence why after all this to and fro I posted a media article that had commentators and cafe owners posting their stance and actions. So it wasnt seen as ME disagreeing and aiming at others. Its relatively independent. And more importantly it had both sides of the surcharge debate. Food for thought, pun not intended.

Given the small size of cafes and the labour content, Im ok with surcharges for 3.5 days a year. others arent, Im good with that.

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#3214289 4-Apr-2024 19:38

MikeB4:

"People don’t have to have a religious significance to it to enjoy the day off together" Exactly so why restrict it to a religious event that is celebrated by a portion of our community. Add the days to leave entitlement and it can be taken at a time that is significant to the taker.

As for shops being shut, Aotearoa gets a significant GDP and foreign trade gain from tourism. It is counter productive to have businesses closed when tourists are here to spend. Bricks and mortar outlets are closed by law yet online outlets are trading this unfair.

There is no guarantee that the taker will get the day off when taking as annual leave. An employer can turn down this request if it will leave them short staffed. Then there is the people that wish to spend day with, they need to get approved holidays on same day as well.

People have four weeks a year to attempt to get different dates off if they wish to celebrate a certain day.

Yes if shops are closed tourists can’t spend dollars on those days. On line if physical goods then still need to be delivered, not provided same day.

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#3214292 4-Apr-2024 19:57

I am not proposing we do away with public holidays (I think they are important actually). I just feel it should be an option for those who would prefer to be open, to be allowed to, without punishment. $1000 isn't a deterrant. If you are going to open, you are factoring that into your decision. Plant Barn consider it 'just good business', because it's a fraction on what they actually make. You can't compel a person to work a public holiday unless it's in their job contract, and it would be a normal working day anyway, and with the employment market so competitive, if you aren't treating your staff well, there are others who will, so people just leave or won't take the job in the first place.

I don't see this becoming a slippery slope, where suddenly society collapses as a result.

I do find it ironic that the inspectors who catch companies that are open, and have staff working on a public holiday, are themselves open and working on a public holiday ;)

Whilst it's an interesting idea to have 'observence' days, I can imagine the nightmare that would become. There would need to be rules around whether they would be mandatorily allowed when applied for, and if you have rules, you need enforcement.

Also, if the fine stays in place, will the places who are open charge 2 surcharges? One for the extra costs, and one for the extra extra costs of absorbing the fine? :)

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#3214296 4-Apr-2024 20:04

rugrat:

There is no guarantee that the taker will get the day off when taking as annual leave. An employer can turn down this request if it will leave them short staffed. Then there is the people that wish to spend day with, they need to get approved holidays on same day as well.

It was like that at the first finance company I worked at. They were only shut Xmas Day and whichever Easter Days weren't allowed. It was open seven days a week otherwise. Summer breaks were normally rotated. IE you worked it last year, so you get it this year kind of thing. Only if you were suddenly short staffed, then leave was revoked.

That's what I quite like about days when virtually everything is shut, it's a guaranteed break. Whereas as pointed out several times in this thread already, if it wasn't mandatory it would slowly vanish I suspect.

I do wonder as someone who gets all the public holidays as days off, how I would feel if it turned into annual leave instead and was expected to be at work otherwise.

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#3214314 4-Apr-2024 20:09

networkn:

Also, if the fine stays in place, will the places who are open charge 2 surcharges? One for the extra costs, and one for the extra extra costs of absorbing the fine? :)

Like what you did there! (Positive post)

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#3214315 4-Apr-2024 20:22

My objection to no trade on these days is. We have no official religion in Aotearoa. Circa 37% of the population identify as Christian but have two statutory closure days that impact everyones lives. Yet the day to remember those who sacrificed in wars have only half a day of closure. Non Christian faiths have no statutory observance.

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#3214329 4-Apr-2024 21:30

networkn:

Also, if the fine stays in place, will the places who are open charge 2 surcharges? One for the extra costs, and one for the extra extra costs of absorbing the fine? :)

Quiet! The government might hear and introduce a new public holiday surcharge on fines given out on those days!

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#3214348 4-Apr-2024 22:55

Hmmm, should churches be allowed to be open for business on Good Friday? Fridays are not their usual day of business.

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#3214705 5-Apr-2024 16:13

MikeB4:

Non Christian faiths have no statutory observance.

Wouldn't matariki qualify as a faith-based observance?

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#3214708 5-Apr-2024 16:18

MikeAqua:

MikeB4:

Non Christian faiths have no statutory observance.

Wouldn't matariki qualify as a faith-based observance?

It’s the traditional new year celebration. I guess you could call some of the traditions around it faith based but it’s a seasonal celebration rather than a religious one.

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#3214716 5-Apr-2024 16:33

MikeAqua:

Wouldn't matariki qualify as a faith-based observance?

It's a culturally significant day to the indigenous peoples of Aotearoa and not rooted in theology. It should be celebrated (and be a public holiday) for the same reason Chinese New Year is celebrated (and is a public holiday) in China.

sen8or

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#3214720 5-Apr-2024 16:52

What you don't hear about is the amount of trade that occurs on public holidays, you hear all the moaning from the various places about the increase costs (and an extra 50% on wages plus a day in lieu is costly), but how does their revenue track on these days?

Way back in the dark ages when we had a video store, public holidays were gold and if there happened to be rain on them, it was enough to cry happy tears. We either kept the rosters the same, or gave the staff the option of not working and worked it ourselves, generally the staff opted to work for the extra pay / time off. Whilst there was a small increase in wages for that one day, it was well and truely made up for with extra $ in the till.

I feel sorry for the retail staff that have to work on public holidays and can appreciate that its taking away their choice what to do. I feel even sorrier for the businesses that are in malls where they have an obligation to open or face harsh penalties, they don't get to do the whole profit calculation, they just have to hope.

2 1/2 days without the shops being open really isn't significant in the scheme of things. Will retailers miss out on the revenue completely if they don't open, or will it just delay when they receive it? Thats the gamble that retailers don't want to take I guess.

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#3214731 5-Apr-2024 17:13

sen8or:

2 1/2 days without the shops being open really isn't significant in the scheme of things. Will retailers miss out on the revenue completely if they don't open, or will it just delay when they receive it? Thats the gamble that retailers don't want to take I guess.

thats just it.

the revenue is taking a dive so they are looking at ways to boost that back up. typical nz practice is to cut staff or wages, very old fashion. treat staff as just a cost not an investment. no thought to innovation, productivity or efficiencies. this idea is to simply to make workers work more and erode workers rights.

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