Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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#3228841 10-May-2024 18:20

DjShadow:

A big renewal energy source to consider is the cook strait with the constant current running through it, its depth could however be an issue.

I don't think they have been able to create durable and reliable generators for that. Even tidal generators are problematic.

tdgeek

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#3228842 10-May-2024 18:21

Shadowfoot:

What is the likely cost to get solar and battery? I see Powershop mentions the following, but it seems too imprecise.

As a rule of thumb, a couple who are home most of the time and want an entry level system can expect to budget for under $10,000. From here, the price climbs depending on family habits. A small family may invest $12,000-$15,000 with larger systems costing $20,000+ with the added benefits of daytime power storage and sales of units of power back to the grid.

For me I'd be interested in a house with 2 people home most of the time, with battery to shift usage, and charging of an EV. Selling back to the grid is not important as I expect there would be very little of that with the use of the battery and EV.

My mate has solar PV, and upgraded twice. Circa 4k per kW, now no doubt less. Battery 15k for 13.5kW . Its hard to justify. Even though I love the idea. Heaps in Summer when you dont need it, little in winter when you do need it.

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#3228844 10-May-2024 18:25

networkn:

We would need to spend about 20K to cover the $300 power we spend each month for our family of 4. Assuming we would want a battery, which we most certainly would.

An electrical engineer tried to pin me on this a few weeks ago lamenting my reluctance and saying I could sell my excess energy to a power company which would offset it.

I asked him if he had actually done any real world numbers. Unsurprisingly not so much. I gave him my card and asked him to send through his calculations once he did, and crickets.

As per my previous posts my mate has solar PV. If I got his, and allowed 5% opportunity cost, thats more than my annual power bill as it is (Yes I do have solar HW which is cheap to install) But for me, solar PV would cost us more than we can recover. But I do like the concept and it can work if you only get what you can use and that requires self management of appliances.

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#3228845 10-May-2024 18:28

sen8or:

We could subsidize solar installations on existing houses and mandate them on new builds where practical, add in other healthy home measures to make houses more energy efficient (isn't there a way of taking warmth from the ground and using that as heating, not sure of costs / practicality)

Adding more electricity hungry assets to NZ (EVs for example) will make a more permanent solution to our energy needs more and more urgent. The first cold day of Autumn and we are urged to switch off our heaters in the morning? Hardly long term or sustainable strategy.

I put that forward on some last GZ thread and was cut down as residential power is peanuts. That poster is known to be heavily biased, but is making RES power all green of little value? 1.6 million houses, I agree with you

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#3228846 10-May-2024 18:30

tehgerbil:

What about Geothermal? We have a substantial amount of heat given our location on the earths crust that may provide power.

How much can Rotorua area spare? Can we get geothermal elsewhere? I assume not as we would already have done that

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#3228847 10-May-2024 18:33

I cannot recall a thread that was created 10 hours ago and its 8 pages. Of a serious and genuine topic. Thats a good thing.

vexxxboy

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#3228848 10-May-2024 18:33

tdgeek:

tehgerbil:

What about Geothermal? We have a substantial amount of heat given our location on the earths crust that may provide power.

How much can Rotorua area spare? Can we get geothermal elsewhere? I assume not as we would already have done that

Rotorua cant spare any , they shut down nearly all the geothermal bores for private houses because they were getting weaker and weaker and running out

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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mattwnz

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#3228849 10-May-2024 18:47

I just wonder who is to blame for the situation that NZ is heading towards? Surely the PM should be calling in the heads for a please explain. We shouldn't be in the situation where demand peaks in Autumn could result in supply problems. It isn't even winter yet. The fact that they are also trying to move people off gas for water heating and other heating, onto heatpumps and electric HWC is also only going to increase demand

Wombat1

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#3228850 10-May-2024 18:52

Terrible idea for New Zealand

While I'm in favor of nuclear energy and its potential in Australia, New Zealand's geothermal activity and earthquake risks make it impractical for nuclear power.

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#3228851 10-May-2024 18:53

mattwnz:

I just wonder who is to blame for the situation that NZ is heading towards? Surely the PM should be calling in the heads for a please explain. We shouldn't be in the situation where demand peaks could result in supply problems.

I feel the Resource Management Act has had a big impact on the construction of new generation plants. The lack of available capital for investment at the levels required is impacting as well.

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#3228852 10-May-2024 18:55

mattwnz:

I just wonder who is to blame for the situation that NZ is heading towards? Surely the PM should be calling in the heads for a please explain. We shouldn't be in the situation where demand peaks could result in supply problems.

Ahhhh that would be the politicians who are to blame, they are more interested in points scoring than any long term meaningful solution, particularly one that will take longer than an election cycle.

deepred

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#3228854 10-May-2024 19:02

Ideally if it's fusion energy, which solves the problem of dumping radioactive waste. The only catch is, fusion only happens at the kind of temperatures that vapourise physical materials.

Nuclear fusion breakthrough overcomes key barrier to limitless clean energy

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

Handle9

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#3228858 10-May-2024 19:18

Scott3:

On Nuclear. It is simply too expensive for NZ. Like way, way too expensive. We are a small country, prone to natural disasters, with no nuclear industry and limited heavy engineering industry.

This has always been the issue with nuclear energy in New Zealand. The country is relatively large, sparsley populated and lacks heavy industry near it's one reasonably sized population centre.

Having a nuclear industry isn't just a case of building a power plant and you are done. You need to build a regulatory regime, industrial capacity to service and manage the power stations and then transmit the power where it's needed.

Currently there is no small scale generation, which may suit New Zealand. While there is interesting work being done in the SMR space they aren't commercially deployed and we don't know what we don't know about their viability in service. Realistically they are 15+ years away from being viable for New Zealand to deploy without signiifcant risk.

The electricity security issue in New Zealand is one of an absolutely broken market model. The electricity reforms of the 1990s took a centrally managed coherent electricity system based on security of economic supply and moved it to a model based on maximising shareholder returns. Just like the UK water reforms this has resulted in expensive, unreliable supply.

It's bloody difficult to unwind but it's resulted in this shambles.

I think nuclear energy is a very useful technology for the right application. Shutting down their reactors has been an economic and environmental disaster for Germany because it's driven by politics. It's incredibly stupid.

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#3228859 10-May-2024 19:19

deepred:

Ideally if it's fusion energy, which solves the problem of dumping radioactive waste. The only catch is, fusion only happens at the kind of temperatures that vapourise physical materials.

Nuclear fusion breakthrough overcomes key barrier to limitless clean energy

Ah fusion, the technology that is always "only" 10 years away.

You'll have to forgive my cynicism, it's been bouncing around since I was a child, which was now a long time ago.

Handle9

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#3228861 10-May-2024 19:22

mattwnz:

I just wonder who is to blame for the situation that NZ is heading towards?

The National government of the 1990s. Max Bradford if you want a name but it was part of a very idealogicaly driven reform of electricity supply in New Zealand.

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