29 Miners Stuck in West Coast

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#410032 26-Nov-2010 19:57

Kaos36: Its quite embarrassing that we lost those guys you would think we had the know how to get them out. Its like we had no idea. And we had a policeman in charge? In mining disasters the police are there but to keep the public out away from the danger area, they leave the rescue up to the rescue teams. The robots should of been ordered from the US and Aust on day one but 5 days later we send our one in that breaks down then we ask for the other two. To late. The rescue team should of been sent in within the hr after the first explosion but we couldn't do that cause our guys don't have the right protection gear. We failed 29 miners died. I read on a US forum that when a mining accident such as this one happens the rescue team have a 2 - 5hr window after the first explosion.

What a waste of lives.

Please read the whole discussion from the start and you will understand how and why all decisions were made.

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#410035 26-Nov-2010 20:02

kaos36: The robots should of been ordered from the US and Aust on day one but 5 days later we send our one in that breaks down then we ask for the other two. To late

so what makes the aussie and US robots any better than ours? neither of those are designed for mine recovery either so the results may have been no better.

Kaos36: Its quite embarrassing that we lost those guys you would think we had the know how to get them out. Its like we had no idea.

and you have an idea on how to get them out? there are quite a few miners who have died in mines overseas - including 29 who died in a mine this april in the US of A - and some of those bodies have *never* been brought out of the mines they died in.

i personally think its embarrassing that there are so many armchair critics who dont have the facts, dont read the facts that are available, who have nothing useful to offer, who make uninformed comments and who continuously criticise the efforts of a whole lot of people who are trying really hard, and with the advice of dozens of experts.

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#410201 27-Nov-2010 13:30

Regs:
i personally think its embarrassing that there are so many armchair critics who dont have the facts, dont read the facts that are available, who have nothing useful to offer, who make uninformed comments and who continuously criticise the efforts of a whole lot of people who are trying really hard, and with the advice of dozens of experts.

This sums it up perfectly for me.

Ive been at home the last two weeks after having knee surgery so Ive been able to follow the incident quite closely. Some of the reporting Ive seen and read (in a variety of media) has just been plain awful. Some of TV One's coverage has made my skin crawl, all in the pursuit of getting a 'story'.

How has society changed to the point were everyone is an expert and knows exactly what the rescue team should or shouldnt have done ?

IMO both Peter Whittall and Gary Knowles have done an excellent job in taking responsibility and fronting up to some pretty average media coverage in what must have been an unbelievably tough time.

Getting the 29 men out alive has always been the priority but with the risk of more explosions (which has been proven correct) there was always a risk of more deaths and that wouldve made an already tragic event even more horrible.

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#410272 27-Nov-2010 20:40

The way the 21st century works is

The customer is always right
Workplace harassment is punished
Safety trumps privacy money rescuers and armchair critics armed with apparent common sense

Sorry but the world's a different place compared to before safety was paramount

Kaos36

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#410295 27-Nov-2010 22:10

Regs:

so what makes the aussie and US robots any better than ours? neither of those are designed for mine recovery either so the results may have been no better.

They said that the USA robot was design for mining disasters. Our robot clearly wasn't. But hey to grab the USA robot was a high price so maybe that's why they left it as a last resort? Money.

and you have an idea on how to get them out? there are quite a few miners who have died in mines overseas - including 29 who died in a mine this april in the US of A - and some of those bodies have *never* been brought out of the mines they died in.

No I never said I have an idea, all Im saying is we sat around our tv sets waiting for the miners to die. The only people that probably got something out of all this was the media journalists with their fat pay checks.

i personally think its embarrassing that there are so many armchair critics who dont have the facts, dont read the facts that are available, who have nothing useful to offer, who make uninformed comments and who continuously criticise the efforts of a whole lot of people who are trying really hard, and with the advice of dozens of experts.

I read the facts, I read up about it every night online I watched the vid clips and I read of similar disasters that has happened around the world and as far as I can see our facts were Bullsh*t. We had a 2hr window from the very first explosion yes it would of been a hit or miss but we had that chance yet the rescue team weren't allowed to go in from the so called experts.

Im sure if it happened again, we would do it differently. Its like this had to happen to wake up the govenemt and setup a proper expert rescue team with their own management not some govenment offical & police officer but a proper team for disasters just like this one. I bet if the resuce team had a say in it which they clearly didn't then they would of gone in within that 2hr window knowing they could die from it but that's the only chance they have. But see when you have a police office and govenment backing up you can't send the guys in cause what if? what if they all die, our heads will roll it wouldn't look good. No we can't have that!

Gas explosion = air is running out you can't sit around for days hoping the gas will clear!!!. If any survived they were probably all dead by day 2.

So the facts imho were all BS.

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#410334 28-Nov-2010 09:14

Kaos36:

I read the facts, I read up about it every night online I watched the vid clips and I read of similar disasters that has happened around the world and as far as I can see our facts were Bullsh*t. [snip]
So the facts imho were all BS.

Did you read this...

http://www.usmra.com/rescuer_deaths.htm

Was in the post just before your first one and shows quite clearly IMHO that rushing in to a mine after a accident just causes more deaths.

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SpookyAwol

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#410347 28-Nov-2010 10:00

I read the facts, I read up about it every night online I watched the vid clips and I read of similar disasters that has happened around the world

Yes, and every one is different

and as far as I can see our facts were Bullsh*t.

You are an expert on every single technical aspect of this specific mine rescue?

We had a 2hr window from the very first explosion

As mentioned in previous posts, who is 'we' ? there is no emergency crew in the world that was available in the west coast at the time that could assist

3.30pm Friday a methane explosion threw loader driver Russell Smith 15 metres from his machine.
At 3.45pm there are first reports
Both men emerge from the mine entrance at 5.51pm.
6.11pm St John activate a national emergency response

As you see, by the time the men had recovered and were able to provide a response to what had happened, 2 and a 1/2 hours had passed. At 3:45, they only knew something had occured - not the scale

yes it would of been a hit or miss but we had that chance yet the rescue team weren't allowed to go in from the so called experts.

It was hit and miss to risk more lives????
So called experts???
The experts are those who built and work in the mine - they knew the dangers

Im sure if it happened again, we would do it differently.

Thats where a commission of enquiry with the full facts will provide guidance

Its like this had to happen to wake up the govenemt and setup a proper expert rescue team with their own management not some govenment offical & police officer

Again a naive statement.

but a proper team for disasters just like this one.

A proper team that just does methane filled coal mine rescues? Maybe we could expand it to gold mine rescues too? maybe mountain rescues? maybe disaster and victim recovery? Like it or not - we already have that and the joint agency responses are lead by Police and government agencies. Its their job.

I bet if the resuce team had a say in it which they clearly didn't then they would of gone in within that 2hr window knowing they could die from it but that's the only chance they have.

Who are these men who wear their underpants outside of their clothes and dont fear death??????

But see when you have a police office and govenment backing up you can't send the guys in cause what if? what if they all die, our heads will roll it wouldn't look good. No we can't have that!

And who would be responsible for sending men to their death? Could you live with being the one who made that decision??

Gas explosion = air is running out you can't sit around for days hoping the gas will clear!!!. If any survived they were probably all dead by day 2.

So we agree it was a dangerous situatiion then?

So the facts imho were all BS.

And you are entitled to your opinion, however you state you have fully investigated the disaster and have fully read the thread.

Can you be more specific in supporting your claims where 100's of experts, including the 2 miners who escaped, have already said this was the best approach?

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#410400 28-Nov-2010 14:51

And a 4th explosion 28 NOV 2010 2:30pm...

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#410410 28-Nov-2010 15:54

freitasm: And a 4th explosion 28 NOV 2010 2:30pm...

this proved that they should have attempted to rescue/recover them on the first day. remember the radio interview? the mine's condition will get worse over time. there was a dormant period between the 1st and the 2nd explosion.

Kaos36

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#410474 28-Nov-2010 21:02

I was going to answer to all your replies but thought the better of it.

And you are entitled to your opinion

^ This.

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#411211 30-Nov-2010 14:26

Kaos36: Gas explosion = air is running out you can't sit around for days hoping the gas will clear!!!. If any survived they were probably all dead by day 2.

So the facts imho were all BS.

Doesn't sound like a very humble opinon at all...

Compressed air was being pumped into the mine the whole time, whichapparently was the reason they still had hope of survivors. Instead of bagging the Police and rescuers -- who have a good record of doing the right thing in land based rescues -- why not just criticise the miners and other experts that all said the mine was just too dangerous?

It sounds like the only hope of rescuing those miners was for the mine to have already had a ventilation system that could have withstood such a blast. However I reckon the explosion would have created so much pressure deep in the mine that people in there would have had to be locked in a vault to survive.

NZDF had their brand new robots up and running as soon as they could, considering they were probably still testing the new robots when it happened.

Time to find a new industry!

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#412114 2-Dec-2010 14:49

Is it just me, or is the TVNZ rebroadcast on TV3 & Prime reduced in quality? Watching on Freeview|HD I can see a clear reduction in quality between TV1 and other channels.

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#412153 2-Dec-2010 16:41

The bass player hit some really off key notes during "You Never Walk Alone".

For an event like this, they should have had a proper professional. I'm guessing the band didn't practise with the singers for this particular song, but even then, I would have expected the performance to be much much better. Just talking about the bass player here by the way.

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#419436 20-Dec-2010 14:04

Kaos36: I bet if the resuce team had a say in it which they clearly didn't then they would of gone in within that 2hr window knowing they could die from it but that's the only chance they have. But see when you have a police office and govenment backing up you can't send the guys in cause what if? what if they all die, our heads will roll it wouldn't look good. No we can't have that!

Gas levels spike after GAG shut down
http://www.3news.co.nz/Gas-levels-spike-after-GAG-shut-down/tabid/423/articleID/191667/Default.aspx

"Gas levels in the Pike River Mine rose sharply during the night after the GAG machine was turned off for repairs, forcing an evacuation.

The GAG machine, brought in from Australia to help extinguish fires burning in the mine, was shut down at 2am. At 5:30am, staff were evacuated, before oxygen levels stabilised around 7am."

To me that suggests that to have anyone rush into the mine, it clearly would have been a gamble.

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SteveON

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#419440 20-Dec-2010 14:09

Regs:
Kaos36: I bet if the resuce team had a say in it which they clearly didn't then they would of gone in within that 2hr window knowing they could die from it but that's the only chance they have. But see when you have a police office and govenment backing up you can't send the guys in cause what if? what if they all die, our heads will roll it wouldn't look good. No we can't have that!

Gas levels spike after GAG shut down
http://www.3news.co.nz/Gas-levels-spike-after-GAG-shut-down/tabid/423/articleID/191667/Default.aspx

"Gas levels in the Pike River Mine rose sharply during the night after the GAG machine was turned off for repairs, forcing an evacuation.

The GAG machine, brought in from Australia to help extinguish fires burning in the mine, was shut down at 2am. At 5:30am, staff were evacuated, before oxygen levels stabilised around 7am."

To me that suggests that to have anyone rush into the mine, it clearly would have been a gamble.

Looks like we have a new source to power NZ's depleting gas resources.

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