Coffee machine recommendations?

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#2893452 29-Mar-2022 11:47

@everettpsycho from my research, I'd be looking at the Bambino or Infuser, and only get the Barista Express if the price is the same/better as those two. I haven't seen anything to indicate extra performance over the other two, just the built-in grinder. IMO the next step up performance-wise in the Breville lineup from the Infuser would be the Dual-Boiler, ignoring the consumer friendly "Touch" machines.

I can recommend the Infuser if you can get it on sale for $500 (what I paid for mine) or less and it comes with both the pressurized and non-pressurized baskets. Performance with the Bambino seems to be on-par, but it sounds like the Infuser is better for polishing your barista skills with manual controls for the steam wand and a dedicated hot-water dispenser.

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#2897200 5-Apr-2022 14:07

To report back on my experiments over the past week or two: going precisely against what I said earlier, I've been maintaining an empty hopper and weighing the beans for each shot. Now being freed from isolation means I've also been able to pick up some decaf beans (I have no issue with using decaf, and having these beans to hand means I can have a coffee any time of day/night.) So this week I've started making my second coffee a 50/50 blend of caf/decaf.

So far it's working really well, This method is better when one has a single grinder but also using different beans that require different grinds (I typically find decaf needs to be ground finer). I do have the timer set up perfectly for my standard beans, but as soon as the grind needs to change that set length is no longer relevant. If weighed (or pre-measured), timing is no longer an issue.

At this point, now this system is working, I'm in no rush to get that second grinder, but if I do I think it'll be another SGP as I think it'll be convenient for them to be operationally identical.

@ShinyChrome (and any others): have you managed to perfect single shots? If so, what's the secret to your success? I've tried and failed every time I think (and so gave up ages ago); googling this clearly I'm not alone. As that thread covers, I too find the Breville single baskets are difficult to get a proper tamp, and putting in more beans to bring the grinds over that lip resulted in over-pressurising. (Indeed, it'll be interesting to know people's typical weight of beans for a single and double shot generally; I've been fitting 22g in a double shot, which may be part of the caffiene problem!) This is one of the reasons I've added decaf to the mix, as it lets me reduce caffeine intake while still pulling decent shots.

As for the over-caffeination thing - I have a high sensitivity to most drugs, and can't drink caffeine (even in a cola) after around 12 without it badly affecting sleep. So the point at which I have recently been affected (one single* and one double coffee in the mornings) will sound pathetic to most! I was experiencing weird sensations typically in the afternoon where I'd feel really warm and light-headed, like the early stages of a cold/flu (which is why I thought it was COVID); it also was affecting quality/quantity of sleep. Cutting back to two single shots (or, now, doubles with 50/50 caf/decaf) seems to have solved it.

(* If these references to single shots are confusing, given my earlier comments re inability to pull singles, it's that I'll make 2x single shots from a double basket for me and my wife)

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#2897276 5-Apr-2022 18:30

ShinyChrome:

@everettpsycho from my research, I'd be looking at the Bambino or Infuser, and only get the Barista Express if the price is the same/better as those two. I haven't seen anything to indicate extra performance over the other two, just the built-in grinder. IMO the next step up performance-wise in the Breville lineup from the Infuser would be the Dual-Boiler, ignoring the consumer friendly "Touch" machines.

I can recommend the Infuser if you can get it on sale for $500 (what I paid for mine) or less and it comes with both the pressurized and non-pressurized baskets. Performance with the Bambino seems to be on-par, but it sounds like the Infuser is better for polishing your barista skills with manual controls for the steam wand and a dedicated hot-water dispenser.

Briscoes has the Infuser for $499 current (Quick Link)

I've got the Delonghi Dedica (got some non-pressurised baskets from Aliexpress) - but I'm definitely in that space of wanting to get something better already ...

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#2897311 5-Apr-2022 20:18

jonathan18:
Handsomedan:

65deg C is around where I stop. It usually goes up slightly beyond that after the frothing, but not by a lot.

Interesting... Do you stretch your milk after heating it? I've always done it the other way around.

I find that it heats, froths and stretches all in the same process. I’m not really aware of several different phases. That might just be that I’m not noticing, of course.

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#2897320 5-Apr-2022 20:29

Geektastic:
jonathan18:

Interesting... Do you stretch your milk after heating it? I've always done it the other way around.

I find that it heats, froths and stretches all in the same process. I’m not really aware of several different phases. That might just be that I’m not noticing, of course.

It depends how you do it. On a "traditional" style steam wand the normal process is to introduce air early on by surfing and once you achieve the desired volume you fully immerse the steam wand and just heat the milk.

Super automatics or those sleeves that same machines come with don't work the same way and IMO produce crappy textured milk or mediocre cappuccinos.

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#2897331 5-Apr-2022 20:49

Mine has a conventional steam wand.

Starting with cold milk, by the time I’ve frothed it to the top of the jug and got very fine, shiny foam, the milk is at 65.

I don’t need to do further heating.

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#2897338 5-Apr-2022 21:20

Geektastic: Mine has a conventional steam wand.

Starting with cold milk, by the time I’ve frothed it to the top of the jug and got very fine, shiny foam, the milk is at 65.

I don’t need to do further heating.

You are putting in a lot more air than I would for a flat white/latte. I’m normally looking for approximately 20% extra volume when I’m aerating. For a single flat white that would get the jug to 1/3-1/4 full. That gives really silky shiny milk that can be used for latte art. Any more volume gives stiff foam which isn’t what I’m normally looking for.

I’ll normally have to fully immerse the steam wand to stop aeration well before the milk jug is warm to touch.

Edit: I am using a Lelit Bianca with a dedicated 1.5 litre steam boiler. The steam power is a bit different to a thermo block machine so things happen fast.

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Geektastic

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#2897357 5-Apr-2022 21:59

You are putting in a lot more air than I would for a flat white/latte. I’m normally looking for approximately 20% extra volume when I’m aerating. For a single flat white that would get the jug to 1/3-1/4 full. That gives really silky shiny milk that can be used for latte art. Any more volume gives stiff foam which isn’t what I’m normally looking for.

I’ll normally have to fully immerse the steam wand to stop aeration well before the milk jug is warm to touch.

Edit: I am using a Lelit Bianca with a dedicated 1.5 litre steam boiler. The steam power is a bit different to a thermo block machine so things happen fast.

Mainly because I am usually making two; I drink what would be closest to a double Macciatto. My wife more like a double latte. I only have a small Motta jug so to give her the amount of froth she likes I need to make the jug full!

I agree with you about the boiler/thermo block thing: it probably takes a minute plus to get what I am making. I suspect it would be half that in a more powerful machine.

My next machine will possibly be more sophisticated but the Maestro Specialista has useful grinding and tamping built in along with temperature and dosing etc so it's a good compromise between fully automated and no assistance at all.

I'd like my next machine to be similar but with proper boiler etc but I do not know if anyone makes such a thing.

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#2897359 5-Apr-2022 22:26

I used someone else’s Specialista for awhile and found that I had to remove the exterior metal part of the steam wand (which you can do for cleaning) and just use the rubber inside bit to be able to get milk that was able to be used for latte art. It appeared like the metal exterior part had a hole near the top of the want to introduce air. This was in a different country though so perhaps they are different in NZ.

Handle9

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#2897360 5-Apr-2022 22:29

@geektastic the breville oracle is probably the right machine if you want an integrated grinder/dozer/tamper with a double boiler. The grinder isn’t really as good as the espresso machine but for a true espresso with super automatic convenience it’s just about as good as it gets.

In the medium term Breville have just bought Lelit, merging two of the most innovative companies in the domestic/semi automatic space. It’ll be interesting to see what they come up with in a couple of years time.

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#2897416 6-Apr-2022 08:41

That’s quite similar to ours and Sage is a much more modern branding choice than Breville.

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#2897467 6-Apr-2022 09:40

jonathan18:

@ShinyChrome (and any others): have you managed to perfect single shots? If so, what's the secret to your success? I've tried and failed every time I think (and so gave up ages ago); googling this clearly I'm not alone. As that thread covers, I too find the Breville single baskets are difficult to get a proper tamp, and putting in more beans to bring the grinds over that lip resulted in over-pressurising. (Indeed, it'll be interesting to know people's typical weight of beans for a single and double shot generally; I've been fitting 22g in a double shot, which may be part of the caffiene problem!) This is one of the reasons I've added decaf to the mix, as it lets me reduce caffeine intake while still pulling decent shots.

Using single baskets on any coffee machine is a bit of faff. They are just too finicky to dose and tamp correctly.

In a commercial environment you'll most likely find that the barista will simply use a double basket for everything. If a single shot is required they will just run 1 spout to the cup and 1 spout directly to the drainage tray.

At home I use a technique that I call my double ristretto (Its not a true double risretto). Use a double basket with ~18gm of coffee. Run it all into 1 cup but cut the shot short at ~12secs so I still get ~25 mL. So its effectively 2 half shots. It works well for the beans that I use as it eliminates the bitterness that can be introduced towards the end of standard espresso extraction. Yes I use more beans this way but compared to $4.50 for a flat white from the local cafe I'm still well ahead.

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#2897468 6-Apr-2022 09:40

So...after extolling the virtues of my DeLonghi La Specialista Arte, I have to say I am less enamoured with it now, six months on.

Recently, it had to be sent away for repair, as the steam wand lost all pressure.

Took some time to be fixed and when it returned I have been a bit more objective.

I agree that the steam wand doesn't produce the greatest, most silky microfoam. It's not quite as powerful as I thought it was when I first got it.

A few quirks of the design annoy me compared to the Breville it replaced.

I have a feeling, based on the general build quality and materials (mixed in with my recent experience of the failure of a part after 6 months) that this is not going to last the nearly 10 years my Breville did.

Would I recommend one to anyone that makes more than a couple of coffees every few days? Probably not.

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jonathan18

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#2897477 6-Apr-2022 09:56

Handsomedan:

I agree that the steam wand doesn't produce the greatest, most silky microfoam. It's not quite as powerful as I thought it was when I first got it.

That said, I'm sure it's in a different league to the "cappuccino frother" (yep, literally what they called it) that was on the cheap-as Delonghi I bought for work a few years back (as per the photo below), which wasn't capable of doing anything much more than producing large bubbles of air. it worked ok if I removed the outside tube and used just the rubbery inner tube, but still had a tendency to splatter milk everywhere!

As pointed out by Handle9 above, speed is one of the key advantages of a boiler-based machine - milk heating/texturing is so much quicker compared to my old thermoblock-based machine, and so it's easy to go too far with the stretching if not watching carefully.

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#2897493 6-Apr-2022 10:01

Senecio:

jonathan18:

@ShinyChrome (and any others): have you managed to perfect single shots? If so, what's the secret to your success? I've tried and failed every time I think (and so gave up ages ago); googling this clearly I'm not alone. As that thread covers, I too find the Breville single baskets are difficult to get a proper tamp, and putting in more beans to bring the grinds over that lip resulted in over-pressurising. (Indeed, it'll be interesting to know people's typical weight of beans for a single and double shot generally; I've been fitting 22g in a double shot, which may be part of the caffiene problem!) This is one of the reasons I've added decaf to the mix, as it lets me reduce caffeine intake while still pulling decent shots.

Using single baskets on any coffee machine is a bit of faff. They are just too finicky to dose and tamp correctly.

In a commercial environment you'll most likely find that the barista will simply use a double basket for everything. If a single shot is required they will just run 1 spout to the cup and 1 spout directly to the drainage tray.

At home I use a technique that I call my double ristretto (Its not a true double risretto). Use a double basket with ~18gm of coffee. Run it all into 1 cup but cut the shot short at ~12secs so I still get ~25 mL. So its effectively 2 half shots. It works well for the beans that I use as it eliminates the bitterness that can be introduced towards the end of standard espresso extraction. Yes I use more beans this way but compared to $4.50 for a flat white from the local cafe I'm still well ahead.

Thanks, that's useful info and ideas. Often it's not an issue as I'll just do two singles from a double for me and my wife, but she's back at work many days a week now, so for those days I need methods to reduce that caffeine intake.

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