Climate Change Thread

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#3110503 1-Aug-2023 14:55

ezbee:

Sweden does benefit from having nuclear power accounting for approximately 30-35% of Sweden's total electricity production.
The rest being mainly Hydroelectric.
Having lots of power generation probably helps its industry a lot and there is enough power to export as well.

Problem is to afford nice things you do need income and for Norway hydrocarbons finance its support of EVs etc.
There are Swedish companies involved in Hydrocarbon extraction in the North Sea too.

Swedish oil firm confirms massive North Sea find some years back as example.
https://www.thelocal.se/20110930/36460

Its all a bit easier when you are a hop skip and jump from a large proportion of earths consumer population.
So you can have all sorts of industries with major foot-pints across EU etc, to broaden out your economy.
IKEA, Volvo and all that.

Last stop before Antartica as we are, not so much, if only Penguins had deep pockets.

Most of the countries doing a very good job on environmental and social progress, have benefited significantly from oil extraction. The Netherlands (Shell Oil), Norway (massive oil resources), Sweden (own oil resources and strong economic ties to Norway). Oil is good money for developed countries. Those three countries are also very deliberate in their strategies to move away from oil. For example: The Netherlands is big into food and pharma (and seawalls). Norway in technology, equipment etc for primary industries including fishing, forestry and aquaculture (and oil).

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#3110573 1-Aug-2023 16:46

Norway is bigly into sovereign wealth funds too, courtesy of all the oil revenue. All a bit like Saudi Arabia albeit without the chop-chop proclivity.

Geektastic

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#3110574 1-Aug-2023 17:02

evilengineer:
The Spectator magazine is hardly a source of impartial information or considered comment on this particular topic.

Might as well go straight to the Exxon or Shell PR department for their take.

It’s as impartial as any other MSM source.

Geektastic

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#3110575 1-Aug-2023 17:04

I suspect economic reality is starting to trump idealism. This is from the Daily Telegraph:

“Rishi Sunak announced hundreds of new licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction on Monday and said Labour’s plans to end new exploration were “bad for the environment”.

On a trip to Scotland on Monday, the Prime Minister argued that the Government’s policy of “maxing out” developments in the North Sea was compatible with net zero.

He pointed to new figures showing that the carbon footprint of imported liquified natural gas (LNG) is nearly four times higher than domestic production.

He said Labour’s policy of ending new oil and gas licences was bad for the economy and energy security and would make the UK “more reliant on energy that comes from abroad”.

“And it’s bad for the environment,” he said. “So, any which way you look at it, I don’t think that’s the right policy. What we’re doing is right for the country.”

tdgeek

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#3110578 1-Aug-2023 17:16

Geektastic: I suspect economic reality is starting to trump idealism. This is from the Daily Telegraph:

Maybe what you mean is that greed trumps climate change? Greed is greed. Climate change is the reality.

So, lets go for votes/$ now, climate change will come later, so lets get the cash and let our kids/grandkids suffer?

MikeB4

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#3110776 1-Aug-2023 17:53

Taking action to mitigate climate change is not idealism.

Rikkitic

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#3110781 1-Aug-2023 18:28

Geektastic: I suspect economic reality is starting to trump idealism. This is from the Daily Telegraph:

“Rishi Sunak announced hundreds of new licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction on Monday and said Labour’s plans to end new exploration were “bad for the environment”.

On a trip to Scotland on Monday, the Prime Minister argued that the Government’s policy of “maxing out” developments in the North Sea was compatible with net zero.

He pointed to new figures showing that the carbon footprint of imported liquified natural gas (LNG) is nearly four times higher than domestic production.

He said Labour’s policy of ending new oil and gas licences was bad for the economy and energy security and would make the UK “more reliant on energy that comes from abroad”.

“And it’s bad for the environment,” he said. “So, any which way you look at it, I don’t think that’s the right policy. What we’re doing is right for the country.”

What twisted logic to justify not taking any meaningful environmental action. This is the same fake argument being promulgated here: If we don't do it, someone else will get the benefit. Worse, everyone will now jump on the bandwaggon. Let's suck as much fossil fuel as we can out of the ground before effective international regulation prevents it. This takes self-centred myopic don't give a damn for anyone else selfishness to a whole different level.

I hope Sunak enjoys his 50 degree London summers. He is despicable.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3110783 1-Aug-2023 18:37

Geektastic: “Rishi Sunak announced hundreds of new licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction on Monday and said Labour’s plans to end new exploration were “bad for the environment”. On a trip to Scotland on Monday, the Prime Minister argued that the Government’s policy of “maxing out” developments in the North Sea was compatible with net zero.

Now you're on shaky ground - quoting a guy who seems to think housing refugees on ~~prison barges~~ ahem temporary floating accommodation is a just a wonderful solution while even conservative MPs are not happy with it.

I would not expect Sunak to continue fossil exploration for the wholesome benefit of the climate really. I do think Sunak's attempted justification is a point worth examining. If it was a one-to-one swap I expect he'd be right. In practice it depends on the availability of non-polluting renewables and I'd like to know more about the UKs current investment pattern and if Sunak's government is really committed to net zero as he implies.

evilengineer

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#3110784 1-Aug-2023 18:41

Geektastic: I suspect economic reality is starting to trump idealism. This is from the Daily Telegraph:

“Rishi Sunak announced hundreds of new licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction on Monday and said Labour’s plans to end new exploration were “bad for the environment”.

On a trip to Scotland on Monday, the Prime Minister argued that the Government’s policy of “maxing out” developments in the North Sea was compatible with net zero.

He pointed to new figures showing that the carbon footprint of imported liquified natural gas (LNG) is nearly four times higher than domestic production.

He said Labour’s policy of ending new oil and gas licences was bad for the economy and energy security and would make the UK “more reliant on energy that comes from abroad”.

“And it’s bad for the environment,” he said. “So, any which way you look at it, I don’t think that’s the right policy. What we’re doing is right for the country.”

There we go, another hit on the right wing bingo!

Lets go for the Daily Mail and Express to get a full house.

I mean, come on: "new figures showing that the carbon footprint of imported liquified natural gas (LNG) is nearly four times higher than domestic production."

Possibly factually correct in the purest sense, but only in regards to actually transporting LPG to the UK from the Middle East.

Massive, massive greenwashing. Totally ignoring the following facts:

Most of the UK's imports come via North Sea pipelines from Norway, not as LPG on tankers.
The actual problem is burning the bloody stuff!

Everybody needs to wean themselves off fossil fuels over the next 10-20 years, not go looking for another 30-40 years worth of supply.

Plus the "economic reality" is that renewables are already cheaper than oil/gas with the currently banned in the UK onshore wind coming in cheapest, it improves your balance of payments and protects you from price shocks. Not to mention that the cost of doing something now will be orders of magnitude lower than the costs associated with doing nothing for another 20 years.

evilengineer

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#3110787 1-Aug-2023 18:51

Geektastic:
evilengineer:

The Spectator magazine is hardly a source of impartial information or considered comment on this particular topic.

Might as well go straight to the Exxon or Shell PR department for their take.

It’s as impartial as any other MSM source.

No it isn't.

Have you ever tried reading it?

It's the home of right wing libertarian commentary and contraryism.

There's things in there that would make David Seymour blush.

It's no more impartial on the subject of global warming than it is on the subject of Brexit, no doubt still trying to tell everyone that both are actually a good thing.

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#3110803 1-Aug-2023 19:55

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Are people considering how prepared they are for frequent extreme weather, power or food supply issues?

I personally think these are important issues. Cyclone Gabriel certainly showed me where I was lacking in preparedness, and it will only get worse from here.

Curious to know if this is something people are thinking about.

kingdragonfly

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#3110837 1-Aug-2023 22:30

This is a parody video; Of course because it's Australian, lots of rough language.

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kingdragonfly

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#3110843 1-Aug-2023 22:44

It's Alabama, the deep conservative South, so of course no mention of climate change.

Converted everything to Celcius

Alabama 4 News: Some surfaces are hotter than others during the summer

...Lets assume the air temperature is 35 C degrees [a common summertime temperature], which is pretty hot in almost any location. At this temperature, shaded grass is actually cooler than the actual temperature.

Add direct sunlight to the equation and grass heats up to 41 degrees. Even that is more tolerable than walking on harder surfaces. Asphalt is almost always going to be the hottest surface to walk during a hot summer’s day.

Imagine trying to walk across pavement that’s heated to 60 degrees!
...
Dogs can have an especially hard time if they have to walk across concrete or asphalt. Paws burns can happen in one minute.
...
When someone says they can fry an egg in a dark parking lot during the middle of the day, they aren’t joking. Since this is possible, consider the effects this can have on your skin. First degree burns can occur from hot surfaces, even if temperatures are in the thirties outside. Second degree burns can happen when walking on metal or asphalt surfaces for too long.

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#3110855 2-Aug-2023 06:39

Geektastic:
He pointed to new figures showing that the carbon footprint of imported liquified natural gas (LNG) is nearly four times higher than domestic production.

Oooooor you could reduce your LNG consumption.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

tdgeek

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#3110858 2-Aug-2023 07:26

Rust:

On a slightly different tack, are people actively considering how they will live with climate change going forward?

For example, I would not consider purchasing oceanside property, or property that would be at risk from sea level rise, erosion or flooding. Yet waterfront property is still very popular, and expensive, here in NZ.

Are people considering how prepared they are for frequent extreme weather, power or food supply issues?

I personally think these are important issues. Cyclone Gabriel certainly showed me where I was lacking in preparedness, and it will only get worse from here.

Curious to know if this is something people are thinking about.

ChCh, but not near the coast, west side of the city, and more or less on the flat, just a tad raised from the street

I'm:

Increasing vege garden production, and plan to start a bit earlier given lack of frosts and a mild Winter

We get surface flooding due to clay soil, so I will look at adding polythene pipe to help that runoff, already have one in place

Power, we ironically would use the BBQ if needed. We have a gas hob, I assume I can start that with a match if no power

Keep an eye on friends and family

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