Is she legal to drive?

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Hiamie

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#101943 12-May-2012 11:57

Last night, my 17 year old daughter went to a party. She holds a full drivers license, but at her age she must not consume any alcohol and drive at all.

She intended to stay overnight and drive home late the following day.

In fact, she drank four small bottles of vodka Cruisers (275mL at 5% ALC/VOL) and stopped drinking at midnight.

She decided to drive home 6 hours later at 6:00 AM.

My questions are... Was she legal to drive at that time?, and if not, when would she have been able to drive again legally?

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#623952 12-May-2012 12:13

I guess the fact she's 17 means she shouldn't be drinking at all. I would suspect that after 6 hours though that a police breath test wouldn't pick up anything.

Maybe get her a breath tester if she's going to insist on drinking and wanting to drive afterwards.

sen8or

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#623963 12-May-2012 12:17

From memory, the "average person" dissapates alcohol at around 1 std drink per hour (IE the level of alcohol detectable in the blood reduces), depending on various factors (size of the person, food consumption etc etc etc)

Given she drank 4 bottles (not sure over what time period, you didn't mention that), then stopped at midnight and drove 6 hours later, her body "should" have processed the alcohol in her system.

Ofcourse, things like fatigue may have come into play if she was awake all that time, but I would have thought she probably would have been ok, again though, "it depends"

KevinL

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#623967 12-May-2012 12:20

Hiamie: Last night, my 17 year old daughter went to a party. She holds a full drivers license, but at her age she must not consume any alcohol and drive at all.

She intended to stay overnight and drive home late the following day.

In fact, she drank four small bottles of vodka Cruisers (275mL at 5% ALC/VOL) and stopped drinking at midnight.

She decided to drive home 6 hours later at 6:00 AM.

My questions are... Was she legal to drive at that time?, and if not, when would she have been able to drive again legally?

It's a fairly difficult question to answer. The problem is that the rate at which alcohol is metabolised depends very much so on the quantity and activity of alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes which varies significantly between people (although a recent study showed at least some of these enzymes are inducible, so you can increase your 'tolerance' by drinking more).

Wikipedia quotes an elimination rate of .015 to .020 grams per deciliter per hour (g/dl/h). She consumed 55mL of alcohol, which is about 43g. Guesstimating her blood volume at 4L, and assuming the worse-case scenario (all the alcohol in her blood and no redistribution to other compartments) that gives an initial concentration of 0.11 g/dL (110mg per 100mL), and about 7 hours to reach zero assuming a linear elimination rate.

This is the worst-case scenario, though, and she would be more than likely to reach the zero point earlier (as the alcohol was consumed over a period rather than a single bolus, and there is likely to be some redistribution i.e. not all the alcohol stays in blood).

(I'm a doctor, but my maths is bad)

tl;dr: probably

Edit - misread the LTSA definition, zero means zero.

kingjj

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#623968 12-May-2012 12:20

Everybody processes alcohol at a different rate so its hard to know for sure. Each of the Vodka Crusiers would be approx 1 standard drink, which can take anywhere from 1-2 hours each for the body to process as general rule of thumb (nothing scientific here just what I've been lead to believe). Females also take longer to process and remove alcohol from their system, add to that her age and the zero tolerance limit and there is a good chance she would have been over the youth limit.

IMHO she should not have driven and was lucky not to meet a checkpoint or random Police turnover.

Next time she should allow at least 12 hours and a good sleep.

/ Disclaimer: this is my personal, no-professional opinion and IANAL /

LennonNZ

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#623969 12-May-2012 12:23

The Law is pretty black and white

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-limits/alcohol-and-drugs-limits.html

"There is a zero alcohol limit if you are under 20"

Reading on the net it says it takes about 1-2 Hours per Standard Drink to metabolize the Alcohol to non detectable amounts but everyone is different

I found this and and with the figures and guesses of weight and other stuff between 5-12 hours before it gets to 0

http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/Blood_Alcohol_Content_BAC_Calculator

So Maybe 6 hours was or wasn't legal to still have a 0 reading. Impossible to tell unless you actually get tested. Better safe than sorry.

alasta

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#623974 12-May-2012 12:51

I'm not convinced that the breath testing equipment can detect anything below 30mg. I have had a zero reading every time I have been breath tested even if I've had a couple of beers that night or half a dozen drinks the night before.

I never drive if I think I'm over half the legal limit, but there was one occasion when I would have expected a 'youth fail' reading.

Hiamie

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#624057 12-May-2012 16:55

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I've printed out your responses, and left them for my daughter to read. Now it's up to her as to how long she waits before driving after a couple of drinks.

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qwerty7

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#624076 12-May-2012 17:38

This is impossible to say it depends on the person and how they process alcohol and how much food they have eaten etc.

Things too think about...

I know someone caught in the morning driving to work a few years ago and did not think they would be over the limit. Lost their license for 6 months if I remember correctly and now have a drink driving charge on their record.

If you drive, and are under the age of 20, make sure you are up to speed on the recent changes to the legal drink drive limit:

... The facts:
The legal drink drive limit for drivers under the age of 20 has changed from 0.03 Blood Alcohol Concentration (or BAC) to zero. This is part of a government strategy to make the roads safer, as young people are at high risk of death or serious injury from road crashes in New Zealand ? and for a significant portion of these, drink driving is a factor.

If you have to go through the alcohol-testing process and are found to have a blood alcohol concentration level of between zero and 0.03 (the old legal limit prior to the zero tolerance law being introduced), you will receive an infringement notice. This will be for an infringement fee of $200 and 50 demerit points. If you receive 100 or more demerit points within a two year period, you will have your driver?s licence suspended for three months.

*Note: BAC 0.03 is the same as 30mg alcohol per 100 ml blood or 150 mcg alcohol per litre breath.

If your test comes in at over 0.03 and you are under the age of 20, you will have to go to court. If you are found guilty you can be fined up to $2,250 or face imprisonment for up to three months; In addition you will be disqualified from driving for three months or more.

If you come in at over 0.08 you will have to go to court. If you are found guilty by the court the penalties are increased to a fine of up to $4,500 or imprisonment for up to three months. In addition you will be disqualified from driving for six months or more.

*Note: BAC 0.08 is the same as 80 mg alcohol per 100 ml blood or 400 mcg alcohol per litre breath.

If you repeat-offend at alcohol levels beyond BAC 0.08, you may be looking at higher penalties than those stated above.

Additional Penalties for High Alcohol Level Offences:

If your alcohol level is higher than BAC 0.13 the Police will immediately suspend your licence for 28 days. This is in addition to any other penalties the court gives you if you are found guilty.

*Note: BAC 0.13 is that same as 130 mg alcohol per 100 ml blood or 650 mcg alcohol per litre breath.

Don?t ever mix drugs and alcohol before driving. Mixing alcohol and drugs can significantly increase your chances of crashing. You will also be increasing your chances of being picked up by the Police and prosecuted.
http://urge.co.nz/drugs-and-alcohol/alcohol/766-drink-driving.html?showall=1

Also if you ever want to join the police force later on in life you are pretty much screwed..

What's your policy regarding applicants with drink driving charges?
NZ Police will not recruit people for police officer positions if they have any drink driving convictions. People who have been acquitted of drink driving charges will be carefully considered on a case by case basis.

Don't get too many speeding tickets either..
I?ve had some speeding tickets, can I still join the NZ police?
You may be able to enter the Royal New Zealand Police College with some minor convictions (e.g. traffic offences). Backgrounds are considered via our offence clearance process. To begin the offence clearance process you must write a letter of explanation, which is then followed up by an interview with a recruitment staff member.
http://www.newcops.co.nz/other/faqs

plod

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#624099 12-May-2012 19:45

I hope it wasn't your car your daughter was using?

Hiamie

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#624104 12-May-2012 20:03

Yes, it is my car, but an old one, well past it's prime now. I let the kids have free access to it, however, after reading all these replies, I may need to consider placing some restrictions!

Also, Thanks Qwerty7 (and everyone else again) for the very informative responses.

Goosey

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#624131 12-May-2012 20:50

Valid question.
Your daughter made a good call to wait 6 hours and get some sleep.
Im sure she would have ate food?
Ultimatley her alcohol tollerance would be lower than someone older. I can remember when I was that age and started to test my abilities... so word of warning, she may do it again...but within a lesser time frame.

Technology has evolved and a good tester is the key along with making sure your daughter is more than comfortable in being able to say 'sorry wont be home...drank too much and/or if its not safe to 'stay somewhere' then feel comfortable in being able to call for a ride with via a family member without any negative thoughts from either side.

Check out these guys....
http://www.ingear.co.nz/EcoShop/6/17995-Sobercheck-SC5000.aspx

nate

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#624184 12-May-2012 23:40

Another random thought...

If your daughter ever gets into hospitality and tries to get her Bar Manager's cert (required by all licenced premises), she won't be able to with a DD conviction. The licencing authority (which is the council) frowns upon convictions like this.

Also, if she does have her Manager's cert already and then gets convicted, her cert gets revoked.

DonGould

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#624193 13-May-2012 00:18

Ok, so she's driving your crappy old $500 car... cool... then some idiot driving a $500k BMW hits her in a hurry on his way to work that morning... Do you see how this is turning bad?

The smart BMW owner gets chatting to her and asks why she's out so early, hears she's returning from a party and suggests to the cop that they do a test of both of them just for insurance...

You also said she stopped drinking at 12. The results will be different depending on when she drank. If she got to the gathering at 7, drank 3 drinks before 8 and then sipped the last one on and off before 12 then that's 10 hours to process the first 3, but if she sipped away on the first one at 9 when she actually showed up, then downed 3 more between 10 and 12 then that really is only 6 or 7 hours to process all 4.

Also was she dancing? Was she doing anything to make her body work a little harder? Was she eating any food?

So many questions, it really is a bit hard to give you any sort of worth while response other than suggesting that cab fare might be a much smarter thing to pack her out the door with than you old bomb.

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Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

nzkc

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#624196 13-May-2012 00:21

nate: Another random thought...

If your daughter ever gets into hospitality and tries to get her Bar Manager's cert (required by all licenced premises), she won't be able to with a DD conviction. The licencing authority (which is the council) frowns upon convictions like this.

Also, if she does have her Manager's cert already and then gets convicted, her cert gets revoked.

My understanding is that its not quite as black and white as nate says here. Yes it will count against her, however, the length of time since the conviction comes into play. Off hand I cannot remember the length of time that is taken into account - its in the act though.

If she holds a manager certificate (or is the licensee of an establishment etc) and is convicted of something that brings their suitability to hold that certificate then an application will be logged for cancellation (sometimes by police, sometimes by the authority/council). It goes to a tribunal and a judge decides on the outcome. They may have their certificate cancelled (very likely for a drink drive conviction) they may not.

IANAL and whilst I don't work in the industry but my wife does (well...not right now cause she's on maternity leave).

Back onto the original topic: Given her age, if she thinks she may still have any alcohol in her system she should not drive.

KevinL

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#624200 13-May-2012 00:30

For what it's worth, in general neither food nor activity alter the rate of alcohol metabolism - it's essentially down to the quantity and activity of your alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes. Having food concurrently with alcohol may slow the rate of absorption, leading to a lower peak level, but the overall quantity of alcohol that needs to be metabolised stays the same.

I wouldn't be too hard on your daughter. As mentioned before, a 6 hour wait was probably OK (although admittedly sailing fairly close to the wind) - be glad she waited at all! 8 hours would have been better, but realistically she almost certainly had a zero blood alcohol level by the time she got in the car this morning.

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