Digital material not physical

Forums › Off topic › Digital material not physical - the Dotcom case

floydbloke

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#103460 7-Jun-2012 12:40

Stuff: FBI agents who copied data from Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom's computers and took it overseas were not acting illegally because information isn't "physical material", the Crown says.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7054878/Dotcom-info-not-physical

Could this play into the hands of Dotcom’s lawyers if/when this gets to court in the US. One would expect a case like this to get horribly messy and complicated and I know sod-all about any applicable copyright laws, but could they claim that Megaupload did not have any copyrighted physical material in its possession?

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

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#637284 7-Jun-2012 12:54

OK, I'm no expert but I think it would work like this:

The material the FBI took was copied so I can't have been said to have been stolen as not physical material was removed.

Kim.Com is fighting breach of copyright laws which are all about copying stuff and the right to do so..

The thing is the content industry has been telling us for so long that 'piracy is theft' with the whole "You won't steal a ..." campaign that on the issue looks confused.

Breach of copyright isn't theft. It may be illegal but it is not more theft than it is extortion, speeding or any other criminal act you might want to name.

The whole 'piracy is stealing' thing is just a bit of marketing by the content industry.

You are completely right in thinking that this will get messy, very messy.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

scuwp

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#637290 7-Jun-2012 13:00

So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

crackrdbycracku

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#637299 7-Jun-2012 13:13

scuwp: So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?

It will be the 'legal authority' bit.

Cops do plenty of things, driving over the speed limit, spraying people with capsicum spray, hitting them with sticks, tapping phone calls, I could go on for about ever. These things illegal for me and you (unless you're a cop) but that they have the legal authority to do them in the course of doing their jobs under the right circumstances.

We don't complain that police exceed the speed limit while trying to catch speeding drivers.

This case will get completely absurd when it gets cracking.

I'm backing the following analogies:

Car salespeople are not responsible for speeding drivers despite selling sports cars designed to exceed the speed limit.
Selling crack pipes is illegal because the only reasonable use for them is smoking crack which is illegal.

Just don't mention YouTube.

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

floydbloke

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#637309 7-Jun-2012 13:24

...and the lawyers keep getting richer.

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

allan

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#637311 7-Jun-2012 13:27

scuwp: So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?

Deeply ironic. Also ironic that I was having this exact conversation with someone over lunch, checked Geekzone before I restarted work and oh - same conversation....

hellonearthisman

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#637410 7-Jun-2012 16:25

I think it's funny that when Kim Doc asked for the Data that the police gave to the FBI the NZ police said it would take 2 - 3 weeks todo as it was a very complex process.

The police must be living in negative land. The judge said, don't give the data to the FBI and so the police gave the data to the FBI. The judge said to the police to give the data to Kim Dotcom and the police haven't mange to do that.

The extradition case should be called a mistrial with the number of dodgy things that have happened in this case.

cyril7

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#637412 7-Jun-2012 16:33

What I like about this whole case is Kim has the funds (assuming he gets access to them, which I somehow suspect the NZ courts will end up letting him) and personality to make this whole thing much more entertaining than I think the US authorities would expect it to be, which might result in some very red faces in high places, interesting times ahead.

Cyril

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grant_k

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#637506 7-Jun-2012 20:38

cyril7: What I like about this whole case is Kim has the funds (assuming he gets access to them, which I somehow suspect the NZ courts will end up letting him) and personality to make this whole thing much more entertaining than I think the US authorities would expect it to be, which might result in some very red faces in high places, interesting times ahead.

Cyril

+1

Kim could write another rap song about it just to rub it in a bit more...

gzt

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#637538 7-Jun-2012 21:48

This is looking more and more like a south park episode.

Lias

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#637700 8-Jun-2012 10:51

I've gone past "give him a fair trial" to "I want him to win, and shaft both our government and the US government in court, even if he was guilty as sin".

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

Kaos36

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#637708 8-Jun-2012 10:58

Kim is awesome. He played his cards well in getting us kiwis to side with him making the coward of the county John Banks show his true colors.

Worst Response To A Crisis:
From a readers' Q and A column in TV GUIDE: "If we get involved in a nuclear war, would the electromagnetic pulses from exploding bombs damage my videotapes?"

Skillie

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#647763 28-Jun-2012 19:09

A twist in the tale - Dotcom searches illegal: Judge

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10816121

knoydart

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#647764 28-Jun-2012 19:13

The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now

scuwp

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#647769 28-Jun-2012 19:21

knoydart: The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now

Unfortunately have to agree.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

traderstu

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#647781 28-Jun-2012 19:53

The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now

Agree with the above

floydbloke: ...and the lawyers keep getting richer.

Yes and the NZ taxpayer getting poorer when the NZ government has to defend a squillion dollar damages suit. No worries, the FBI will probably front up and cover costs - yeah right.

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