Valerie Adams Gold Upgrade

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networkn

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#107535 14-Aug-2012 10:04

Hi There!

I was happy for VA that she got promoted to Gold from Silver, but it seems premature to me?

Isn't the other athlete entitled to an appeal? If that is the case and she wins her appeal what happens then?

It's a very strange story, arguments for both sides I guess. Nadzeya Ostapchuk had been throwing in that range for about 6 months, a sudden and significant improvement, but being a professional athlete she would be tested very regularly and she passed all her prior tests and especially those directly before the olympics. As I understand it, this drug she supposedly took, takes some time to take effect so it's unlikely she started taking them AT the Olympics. Also I guess she is pretty adamant, and as she said, it's the most highly tested event in the world, what were her chances of getting away with it?

Just doesn't seem like the whole story is being reported.

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Mad Scientist
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#672113 14-Aug-2012 10:17

i am totally shocked ... a few points

1) she was tested 14 times prior to that (april - jul) all negative. and then she is dumb enough to take something the night before that takes at least days if not week to have significant effect? i don't think so ...

2) but then again you never know ... it seems to me like everyone takes something (with or without their knowledge i must say) and if you're unlucky or are dumb, you get caught ... (just think - lance armstrong)

3) if she has drugs (B sample confirmation) she will NOT get the medal ... the question is what penalty - hence the appeals

4) every test you do has a false positive and a false negative rate - either quantitative (how much vs how little), procedural (eg some drugged you or you went to the doctor or had surgery and was prescribe something with traces of something) or lab error (lab measuring someone else/something else that mimicks the drug)

oxnsox

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#672117 14-Aug-2012 10:25

networkn: Also I guess she is pretty adamant,

They always are.

Just doesn't seem like the whole story is being reported.

You're probably right, but we get offered the stuff we're most likely to lap up
I believe they call it journalism....

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#672123 14-Aug-2012 10:33

Feel free to read the full report.

http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Disciplinary_commission/London2012_Decision-EB_Disciplinary%20Commission-Ostapchuk.pdf

It is clearly pointed out in there that;
Her sample A and B have both been tested.
Her sampe prior to competing the post competing have been tested.
All of them failed, with the same result.
There was an Disciplinary Commission, that the Belarusians were part of, and they could not explain the results.

According to IOC rules she has failed her drug test, requested the B sample be tested, and failed again. It is now up to her to prove that it was a false positive, which can take years. In the mean time, as per the rules, the medals to passed to the next athlete.

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#672125 14-Aug-2012 10:36

The drug test leading up to London were not neutral testing. They were done in Belarus.

networkn

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#672126 14-Aug-2012 10:36

But still by the overseeing committee correct?

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#672128 14-Aug-2012 10:39

Their own Belarus team. The Eastern European blok is not known for its corruption free officialdom.

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#672139 14-Aug-2012 10:45

I think some people may be missing one vital step...
Athletes have of course taken steroids in the past, but to help ensure they don't get caught, they find a masking agent that is not tested for.
There is every chance that an athlete who is busted for drugs has simply made a mistake with their ingestion of their masking agent.

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#672170 14-Aug-2012 11:16

networkn: Hi There!

I was happy for VA that she got promoted to Gold from Silver, but it seems premature to me?

Isn't the other athlete entitled to an appeal? If that is the case and she wins her appeal what happens then?

It's a very strange story, arguments for both sides I guess. Nadzeya Ostapchuk had been throwing in that range for about 6 months, a sudden and significant improvement, but being a professional athlete she would be tested very regularly and she passed all her prior tests and especially those directly before the olympics. As I understand it, this drug she supposedly took, takes some time to take effect so it's unlikely she started taking them AT the Olympics. Also I guess she is pretty adamant, and as she said, it's the most highly tested event in the world, what were her chances of getting away with it?

Just doesn't seem like the whole story is being reported.

The Belarus athlete had two positive drug tests.

Game over.

Belarus is an incredibly corrupt country. The President is a defacto dictator who lead the agricultural communes in the Soviet era. He's essentially a thug running his own organised crime syndicate from the presidential palace.

He had a "plan" for Belarus to win certain medals. If they weren't won, people would be punished.

If the athlete herself didn't know she was taking the drug, it could come down to her coach or someone else spiking her Belarusian 'NutriGrain'.

They play dirty there. People are leaving Belarus in droves if they have a way of getting out.

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Ramboss

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#672172 14-Aug-2012 11:20

Weather she is finally proved to be a cheat will be up to the officials who are good at their job.

My opinion she IS a cheat no matter what they find, at her age to make such vast improvements over less than 6 months seems impossible(just look at what she has thrown over the last year). Not even Val can do that.
It to me, now just seems like she has taken away the podium finish that Val earned and can never get back.

networkn

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#672173 14-Aug-2012 11:22

Linuxluver:
networkn: Hi There!

I was happy for VA that she got promoted to Gold from Silver, but it seems premature to me?

Isn't the other athlete entitled to an appeal? If that is the case and she wins her appeal what happens then?

It's a very strange story, arguments for both sides I guess. Nadzeya Ostapchuk had been throwing in that range for about 6 months, a sudden and significant improvement, but being a professional athlete she would be tested very regularly and she passed all her prior tests and especially those directly before the olympics. As I understand it, this drug she supposedly took, takes some time to take effect so it's unlikely she started taking them AT the Olympics. Also I guess she is pretty adamant, and as she said, it's the most highly tested event in the world, what were her chances of getting away with it?

Just doesn't seem like the whole story is being reported.

The Belarus athlete had two positive drug tests.

Game over.

Belarus is an incredibly corrupt country. The President is a defacto dictator who lead the agricultural communes in the Soviet era. He's essentially a thug running his own organised crime syndicate from the presidential palace.

He had a "plan" for Belarus to win certain medals. If they weren't won, people would be punished.

If the athlete herself didn't know she was taking the drug, it could come down to her coach or someone else spiking her Belarusian 'NutriGrain'.

They play dirty there. People are leaving Belarus in droves if they have a way of getting out.

Evidence?

vexxxboy

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#672174 14-Aug-2012 11:22

when was the last time an athlete has admitted taking steroids even when caught , they all deny it and always have an excuse ready. This woman is 31, has never beaten Adams in 2 years up to the Olympics, yet in the last 6 months she is suddenly beating her by over half a metre every throw, she wouldn't compete out of her country so she wasn't tested by an independent drug agency until the Olympics and she got caught , pretty simple really, its what used to happen all the time with the eastern European country's .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#672176 14-Aug-2012 11:22

networkn:
Linuxluver:
networkn: Hi There!

I was happy for VA that she got promoted to Gold from Silver, but it seems premature to me?

Isn't the other athlete entitled to an appeal? If that is the case and she wins her appeal what happens then?

It's a very strange story, arguments for both sides I guess. Nadzeya Ostapchuk had been throwing in that range for about 6 months, a sudden and significant improvement, but being a professional athlete she would be tested very regularly and she passed all her prior tests and especially those directly before the olympics. As I understand it, this drug she supposedly took, takes some time to take effect so it's unlikely she started taking them AT the Olympics. Also I guess she is pretty adamant, and as she said, it's the most highly tested event in the world, what were her chances of getting away with it?

Just doesn't seem like the whole story is being reported.

The Belarus athlete had two positive drug tests.

Game over.

Belarus is an incredibly corrupt country. The President is a defacto dictator who lead the agricultural communes in the Soviet era. He's essentially a thug running his own organised crime syndicate from the presidential palace.

He had a "plan" for Belarus to win certain medals. If they weren't won, people would be punished.

If the athlete herself didn't know she was taking the drug, it could come down to her coach or someone else spiking her Belarusian 'NutriGrain'.

They play dirty there. People are leaving Belarus in droves if they have a way of getting out.

Evidence?

Do your own homework. I did mine.

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Ramboss

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#672177 14-Aug-2012 11:23

Sorry "Whether"

networkn

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#672179 14-Aug-2012 11:25

Do your own homework. I did mine.

Well I am wondering where YOU got YOUR information, they are certainly some very bold claims, I don't see anything concrete in my own research to support your claims punishment would be handed out to athletes who don't meet a specific result.

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#672314 14-Aug-2012 15:46

They are talking about having a ceremony at an all blacks game for her. Can't see that happening, it would turn into a battle of sponsors. IOC wouldn't allow All Black sponsors to be displayed and vice versa.

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