Toeing the Legal / Copyright Line

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swiftideas

34 posts

Geek

Topic # 13326 4-May-2007 12:28

Why are Pirates pirates?
.. because they AAAARRGHH!

I'm a lot like most people when it comes to computers. I enjoy the benefits they bring. I get frustrated with them too.

A few things have been bugging me recently. I'd like to share them with you if that's ok.

1.)  As a learner and not an infinite earner, I want to enjoy the beneftis of networked software without fear of penalty.

Recently, I've been affected by the clampdown on 'allofmp3.com'. It is now impossible accessing Russian bazaar without a Russian credit card. Sure it's not US legit but it's not totally illegal either and is a better alternative to limewire. Which, let's face it, was a kiwi's only option for a long time because we don't represent a significant market.

My personal opinion is that charging over $20 for full album when it's compressed anyway is theft in itself.
What do you think?

2.)  I didn't ask for spyware. I didn't ask for hidden settings to automatically update themselves. .

Recently I upgraded to Vista. One thing that bugs me that I've not sussed yet is the default to Office 2007 when opening a document?!? I do have a legally installed copy of Office 2003 and yet I get taken to a reduced functionality "compatibility mode" by default. I don't want Office 2007 but I might one day and so I'm loathe to uninstall it. Yet it trys to suck my money everytime I open a file.

I'm sure you have similiar frustrations with programs trying authorise themselves on your system. Whilst admittedly minor, it's symptomatic of a wider issue in my opinion. That being, the polarisation of mainstream users as smart thieves or foolish customers.

Am I being unfair? Am I hopelessly misguided?
What are your opinions on consumer rights in the digital era?

food for thought. Cheers

p.s I'm now spending hard earned time learning how to use Ubuntu.

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643 posts

Ultimate Geek

Reply # 69509 4-May-2007 13:09

swiftideas: I'm now spending hard earned time learning how to use Ubuntu.

post in the Linux forum if you have any questions ! theres a few Linux geeks trolling around here :-)

You make a good point swiftideas. Hopefully I am not the only one concerned about consumer rights being eroded for the sake of some corp's profit targets. To me, (digital) consumer rights seem to be more protected by vigilant hackers than by legislation. Examples of this I would like to cite are the DVD/CSS fiasco (going back a few years to DVD-Jon), the prevalence of P2P networks, blatant reverse engineering of copy protection schemes (see digg.com yesterday?) and hacktivism and targeted hacking is on the rise (not that I condone that).

Take a read of the Mentor's hacker's manifesto while you're here !

Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

weblordpepe

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

Reply # 69557 4-May-2007 21:23

Oh yeah I'm barf's cheerleader on this for sure.

These 'copyright laws' are being pushed by media companies who say things along the lines of 'its to protect artists rights'. But we're talking about money, here. $$$$$. Money.

Prime example:
I believe that in America it is illegal to post information which could be used to get around a DRM technology. Wtf? Its now illegal to even tell someone -how- to commit a crime?

And not everyone can even agree on what makes downloading music a crime. There's many economic examples where downloading music is A-OK.

But yeah before I go on a rant here, barf is right. These 'protecting artists rights' laws are only about stopping you/me from copying a disc. It's expect that we only -rent- music/video.

Why this ties into Vista is because the DRM is built right into the kernel. This means that your computer obeys the licence restrictions of companies etc and they can impose their own restrictions.
No matter how you look at it, if you run Vista then the software on your computer is acting as law-enforcement and stopping you from doing what you might want to do. Essentially this means that these companies don't trust you to use your computer. And I think that's something worth advocating against. I'm just lazy so I'd rather whine & complain on geekzone.

cokemaster

Nate wants an iphone
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Reply # 69560 4-May-2007 22:28

weblordpepe:
Why this ties into Vista is because the DRM is built right into the kernel. This means that your computer obeys the licence restrictions of companies etc and they can impose their own restrictions.
No matter how you look at it, if you run Vista then the software on your computer is acting as law-enforcement and stopping you from doing what you might want to do. Essentially this means that these companies don't trust you to use your computer. And I think that's something worth advocating against. I'm just lazy so I'd rather whine & complain on geekzone.

There is DRM in Mac OS (itunes, plays for sure).
There is DRM in Windows XP
There is DRM in a lot of music players...include ipods and zunes.
There is DRM in mobile phones.

DRM and vista are hardly exclusive. Besides... its a damned if you do and damned if you don't approach. If Microsoft/software vendor does - Slashfud crowd accuses them of bowing down to media companies. If Microsoft/software vendor doesn't - users troll vendor because they can't play their shiny new HD-DVD on windows.

Note that I don't support DRM.

webhosting |New Zealand connections | geekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

weblordpepe

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

Reply # 69610 5-May-2007 15:42

Yeah we know all that.

But XP doesnt have DRM built into the kernel, as far as I'm aware anyway.

But there's no sense in playing down the significance of Vista's DRM given MS's strength in the desktop market. It's a big deal for a lot of people.

Americancars

223 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 69650 5-May-2007 22:28

swiftideas:
My personal opinion is that charging over $20 for full album when it's compressed anyway is theft in itself.
What do you think?

I think that you are right. $20 for compressed, reduced quality songs is daylight robbery. I personally won't be stopping buying cds because they sound so much better. If you have a high quality sound system like a Bang and Olufsen BeoSound 9000, you can easily tell the difference between a Mp3 cd and a store bought cd. I hate this idea of Mp3's replacing CD's. Especially when they are bad, compressed quality.

Can't beat the burble of that American V8. Ohh yea!

noddy76

30 posts

Geek

Reply # 69677 6-May-2007 12:49

weblordpepe:

Prime example:
I believe that in America it is illegal to post information which could be used to get around a DRM technology. Wtf? Its now illegal to even tell someone -how- to commit a crime?

And coming soon to a country near you if certain NZ MPs get their way.

google "Copyright (New Technologies and Performers' Rights) Amendment Bill" and pay attention to the bit about TPMs (technological Protection measures"

Americancars

223 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 69678 6-May-2007 13:04

The government that we currently have keeps thinking of new ways to make our life more miserable. It seems that every week there is a new law which makes life just that little bit crappier to live.

I don't know how they are going to enforce this law though. The fact of the matter is, that if people want to download files illegally, then a change in the law isn't going to stop them because they are already breaking the law, so why should they stop now that they are breaking the law in a different way.

It's a little bit like when someone is running from the police, the fact that they are going to break the speed limit isn't going to worry them because they are already breaking the law bigtime by running from the police.

In PCWorld a couple of months ago, they had a perfectly legal way of removing the DRM from your MP3's.

Can't beat the burble of that American V8. Ohh yea!

weblordpepe

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 69700 6-May-2007 18:11

That's right.

There is one simple thing which politicians all over the world forget. Or they ignore: Criminals don't obey the law.

+ Outlawing sharing files won't help because people who want to share files will share files. People who obide by the law will miss out on the benefits of file sharing, while nasty people get benefits.

+ Outlawing guns won't help because all that does is disarm law-abiding people. The nasty people get more abilities.

Either way, it divides people. What really gets to me is the 'spin' put on these DRM laws about protecting artists. Rubbish. Its about protecting the profits of media companies.

cokemaster

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Reply # 69703 6-May-2007 18:31

weblordpepe:
+ Outlawing guns won't help because all that does is disarm law-abiding people. The nasty people get more abilities.

I want to go 'deer hunting' with a M16 and a few service to air missiles.... Honest!

webhosting |New Zealand connections | geekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

weblordpepe

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Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

Reply # 69711 6-May-2007 19:24

Well what else are you going to do with a M16??

Seriously though... not allowing people to have guns is like not trusting kids with knives. Although really I dont particularly care much for the pro-gun movements or anything like that or that stuff that goes on in America.

But you can kill lots of people with a chainsaw too. Or dangerous chemicals. The majority of people kill people with their cars dont they? I told you smoking was bad. People who smoke cars drive cars, and cars crash! See video games are to blame.

Ok I went off topic there but so do all the crazy laws I guess.

EDIT: I spose a serious response is required though.
Lets say handguns are outlawed. That means that people who don't want to kill others aren't allowed handguns.
People who do want to kill others will just ignore the law and have handguns anyway.
End result is one person with a handgun who wants to kill people, and lots of people who don't want to kill others are unarmed.

Kids with guns etc is a whole other ball game. But I gather we're already off topic enough so sorry my bad.

Americancars

223 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 69725 6-May-2007 20:19

Some people just don't think things through fully. I mean look at the anti- smacking law, 80% of people were against it so why did they put it through.

If I'm breaking the law, making what I'm doing more illegal isn't going to stop me.

The only people who lose out are the honest ones.

Can't beat the burble of that American V8. Ohh yea!

weblordpepe

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

Reply # 69749 6-May-2007 23:54

And then you get the 'its wrong -because- its illegal' people who don't help any debate.

rwales

122 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 69761 7-May-2007 01:46

cokemaster: I want to go 'deer hunting' with a M16 and a few service to air missiles.... Honest!

What about the deadly terrorist weapon that is the humble hammer?

"The Lin family consented to the search, and a hammer was found in the boy’s room, which he used to fix his bed, because it wasn’t in good shape, Chen said. He indicated police seized the hammer as a potential weapon. “They decided he was a terroristic threat,” said one source close to the district’s investigation." - http://www.fortbendnow.com/news/2847/chinese-community-rallies-behind-student-removed-from-clements-over-pc-game-map

Basically, this kid made a gaming mod including a map of his school AND he owned a hammer. Oh, the inhumanity.

My personal opinion is that charging over $20 for full album when it's compressed anyway is theft in itself.
What do you think?

Anyway, getting back on topic: they charge $20/album BECAUSE THEY CAN. If you're looking for justification there is none, save the maximization of shareholder wealth. Welcome to capitalism.

There are still some glimmers of hope in a world of insane copyright laws - the Brazilian government just voided the patent rights of Merck & Co. Inc., a large pharmaceutical that was forcing the price of AIDS medication through the roof. We're not talking about paying a few extra bucks for that new album now - we're talking about SURVIVAL. I wish more governments would issue a collective "screw you" to the morally bankrupt corporate leeches.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04351721.htm

Not bitter. :)

inane

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Reply # 69779 7-May-2007 09:38

cokemaster:
weblordpepe:
+ Outlawing guns won't help because all that does is disarm law-abiding people. The nasty people get more abilities.

I want to go 'deer hunting' with a M16 and a few service to air missiles.... Honest!

dude, WHO DOESN'T.

cmon, i reckon 99% of guys would jump at a chance to shoot "stuff" with an M16 better yet surface to air missiles.!!!!

even if it was just dirt and stuff, that would be great fun, I'd love it.

but the point is of course, these things can cause serious harm if used the wrong way, just like cars, as we have seen from the tragic events at the party on a weekend where a car crashed through a party, killing two girls and hospitalising plenty more,

this is the same as drm used in the wrong way it can cause many problems,

every time you drm a song, god kills a kitten, please think of the kittens.

weblordpepe

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

Reply # 69848 7-May-2007 20:01

People who have intent to hurt people have all they need to do harm. They'll find a way to hurt someone else if they want to. One could argue whichever tool they use is beside the point. And yeah I'd love to fire a rocket launcher or something. I think everyone would.

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