John Oliver on "Net Neutrality"

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eXDee

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Topic # 146927 2-Jun-2014 23:43

So we don't have a general broadband section - this isn't new zealand broadband specifically. Specific to USA, but could become a worldwide problem.

But i feel like this is a hilarious and blunt commentary on the issue and worth the share. Contains a bit of bleeped swearing if at work/sensitive etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU

Athlonite

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Reply # 1058296 3-Jun-2014 01:28

He's absolutely correct and it's not just this branch of the FCC that it's being done in either the..On the whole the FCC is just a toothless dog infested by the partial ex CEO's of BIG corp America

solaybro

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Reply # 1058299 3-Jun-2014 01:52

What are other countries like for providers? I know we are safe because of how many providers we have but is losing net neutrality a real problem for other countries?

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k1wi

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Reply # 1058301 3-Jun-2014 02:34

The biggest problem that the US has (in my opinion) is very strong local monopolies. What most cable ISPs do (comcast, time warner etc) is sign long-term monopoly agreements with local councils, in order to lock out competitors. So as a consumer, you often only have 1x cable option and 1x DSL option (which calls 1mbps 'high speed internet')... As a result, the cable companies can largely charge what they like. FIOS would have been a game changer, but with a 20% uptake rate, Verizon unfortunately stopped building out their network :(

For the time being, the internet here's still better than NZ, but it's heading on a downward slope, compared with NZ's upward trajectory.

solaybro

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Reply # 1058303 3-Jun-2014 03:20

k1wi: The biggest problem that the US has (in my opinion) is very strong local monopolies. What most cable ISPs do (comcast, time warner etc) is sign long-term monopoly agreements with local councils, in order to lock out competitors. So as a consumer, you often only have 1x cable option and 1x DSL option (which calls 1mbps 'high speed internet')... As a result, the cable companies can largely charge what they like. FIOS would have been a game changer, but with a 20% uptake rate, Verizon unfortunately stopped building out their network :(

For the time being, the internet here's still better than NZ, but it's heading on a downward slope, compared with NZ's upward trajectory.

Google fiber is America's only hope.

sbiddle

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Reply # 1058305 3-Jun-2014 05:07

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"net neutrality" as many describe it has not, can not, and never will exist. Its is an ideology that can never exist in a multiplexed network.

Many people confuse simple network interconnect agreements which form the basis of the internet with free and open peering. They are not the same thing.

hashbrown

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Reply # 1058515 3-Jun-2014 13:15

sbiddle: "net neutrality" as many describe it has not, can not, and never will exist. Its is an ideology that can never exist in a multiplexed network.

So what? Just because you can't reach a state of idealogical perfection doesn't make the endire idealogy invalid. Otherwise we can abandon Democracy, Capitalism etc, etc....

Pure Net Neutrality may be unacheivable but that shouldn't stop deliberate attempts to subvert the ideal on a large scale.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1058523 3-Jun-2014 13:26

hashbrown:
sbiddle: "net neutrality" as many describe it has not, can not, and never will exist. Its is an ideology that can never exist in a multiplexed network.

So what? Just because you can't reach a state of idealogical perfection doesn't make the endire idealogy invalid. Otherwise we can abandon Democracy, Capitalism etc, etc....

Pure Net Neutrality may be unachievable but that shouldn't stop deliberate attempts to subvert the ideal on a large scale.

Imagine for a moment what Net Neutrality would look like if implemented in NZ

All ISPs must treat ALL traffic the same.

That means:

No shaping or management of any kinds of traffic (whether throttling P2P, or giving priority to voice)
No caching of content or peering to improve the experience (unless you cache the entire internet - which is impossible) - this is the equivalent of what Comcast did with Netflix

Those things alone would remove the ability for any ISP to offer proper unlimited plans, or even plans with very large datacaps.

So now we are back to the world of small datacaps, ISPs also can't even unmeter any sites, because that would go against net neutrality

sounds awesome. I can't wait!

ripdog

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Reply # 1058539 3-Jun-2014 13:41

NonprayingMantis:
hashbrown:
sbiddle: "net neutrality" as many describe it has not, can not, and never will exist. Its is an ideology that can never exist in a multiplexed network.

So what? Just because you can't reach a state of idealogical perfection doesn't make the endire idealogy invalid. Otherwise we can abandon Democracy, Capitalism etc, etc....

Pure Net Neutrality may be unachievable but that shouldn't stop deliberate attempts to subvert the ideal on a large scale.

Imagine for a moment what Net Neutrality would look like if implemented in NZ

All ISPs must treat ALL traffic the same.

That means:

No shaping or management of any kinds of traffic (whether throttling P2P, or giving priority to voice)
No caching of content or peering to improve the experience (unless you cache the entire internet - which is impossible) - this is the equivalent of what Comcast did with Netflix

Those things alone would remove the ability for any ISP to offer proper unlimited plans, or even plans with very large datacaps.

So now we are back to the world of small datacaps, ISPs also can't even unmeter any sites, because that would go against net neutrality

sounds awesome. I can't wait!

I was under the impression that only Telecom, Vodafone and Bigpipe have transparent proxies doing caching. At least Orcon and Snap do unlimited without caching. And third parties can still make local CDN nodes etc and freely interconnect with local ISPs.

In any case, Net Neutrality law isn't required in NZ because we have a hyper-competitive ISP market with an active and fair regulator. It's needed in the US because they have regional monopolies out the a$$ and a feet-dragging, revolving-door regulator.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1058559 3-Jun-2014 14:03

ripdog:
NonprayingMantis:
hashbrown:
sbiddle: "net neutrality" as many describe it has not, can not, and never will exist. Its is an ideology that can never exist in a multiplexed network.

So what? Just because you can't reach a state of idealogical perfection doesn't make the endire idealogy invalid. Otherwise we can abandon Democracy, Capitalism etc, etc....

Pure Net Neutrality may be unachievable but that shouldn't stop deliberate attempts to subvert the ideal on a large scale.

Imagine for a moment what Net Neutrality would look like if implemented in NZ

All ISPs must treat ALL traffic the same.

That means:

No shaping or management of any kinds of traffic (whether throttling P2P, or giving priority to voice)
No caching of content or peering to improve the experience (unless you cache the entire internet - which is impossible) - this is the equivalent of what Comcast did with Netflix

Those things alone would remove the ability for any ISP to offer proper unlimited plans, or even plans with very large datacaps.

So now we are back to the world of small datacaps, ISPs also can't even unmeter any sites, because that would go against net neutrality

sounds awesome. I can't wait!

I was under the impression that only Telecom, Vodafone and Bigpipe have transparent proxies doing caching. At least Orcon and Snap do unlimited without caching. And third parties can still make local CDN nodes etc and freely interconnect with local ISPs.

In any case, Net Neutrality law isn't required in NZ because we have a hyper-competitive ISP market with an active and fair regulator. It's needed in the US because they have regional monopolies out the a$$ and a feet-dragging, revolving-door regulator.

they all use caches, it just depends on how they do it.

sbiddle

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Reply # 1058754 3-Jun-2014 18:25

The US talks about needing "net neutrality" but what they really need is decent ISPs. Many Americans only have 1 or 2 options for broadband and overall the quality of their broadband can only be described as very average.