'Binding' disclaimers on email signatures

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cranz

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# 18093 27-Dec-2007 15:20

I've always wondered if there is any point to these signatures

This email is a confidential communication from [company] to the intended addressee, and may contain legally privileged content. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, copy or disclose this email or any attachment to any person. Please let us know if you receive it in error and confirm you have destroyed the message entirely. [company] accept no liability whatsoever if this email inadvertently carries with it any "virus" or "viruses" or like unauthorised instruction that causes any damage or loss of function to your computer system. By opening this email, or any attachment you will be bound by these terms.

I especially like the last sentance!

So, are these all for show? do they stand up? are we "bound" by the terms of this disclaimer if we open the email (kind of hard to read what I'm being bound to without opening the email), or is it a waste of pixels

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BDFL - Memuneh
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# 101909 27-Dec-2007 15:33

IANAL but I doubt you can be bound to something you have no idea before entering into the contract. Like those software packages that say "by opening this package you are agreeing to the terms and conditions listed 'inside' the box"...

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nate

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# 102083 28-Dec-2007 16:55

I've always wondered about the posts that end with something like "all views are mine and don't represent that of abc company".

Could this be enforced? If you are using a company computer, in company time and the post can be tracked back to that company's ip address, would it not be seen as a "company" post?

kinsten

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# 102088 28-Dec-2007 17:25

Has anyone actually received one of this emails with a disclaimer in error. And if so, what did you do?
I tried to find a virus to mass mail it, but this proved too risky, so then decided to send them a link back to their own email (as a screen shot) with the word Viagra pasted overNover in the background.

This is actually true lies. And it is the end of the day, forgive my misbehaving =)

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cokemaster

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# 102094 28-Dec-2007 17:48

kinsten: Has anyone actually received one of this emails with a disclaimer in error. And if so, what did you do?
I tried to find a virus to mass mail it, but this proved too risky, so then decided to send them a link back to their own email (as a screen shot) with the word Viagra pasted overNover in the background.

That is excessively stupid. People have enough problems how it is, without clowns trying to be funny and mailing one out willing.

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freitasm

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# 102105 28-Dec-2007 19:06

kinsten: I tried to find a virus to mass mail it, but this proved too risky, so then decided to send them a link back to their own email (as a screen shot) with the word Viagra pasted overNover in the background.

How this could possibly be reated to disclaimers is beyond me. And why would anyone want to do it...

Do you kno it is illegal under NZ law to access somone else's computer without authorisation, as well as trying to install this kind of "software"?

Back on topic please.

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domainspace

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# 103997 10-Jan-2008 13:26

I really don't think you could get into problems for reading an email with such a signature. But if you reply to it or forward it on to someone else then I think the assumption can be made that you were aware of the signature and should therefore respect its terms. Chances are nothing will happen, but if there's a big annoyed company on the other end, do you really want to find out?

TinyTim

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# 104013 10-Jan-2008 14:26

IANAL either, but I have seen people say that that they are a waste of pixels. EDIT: unless they are very well written.

This email is a confidential communication from [company] to the intended addressee, and may contain legally privileged content.

...or it may not. So which is it? Are you leaving it to me to decide?

If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, copy or disclose this email or any attachment to any person.

Did you send it to me or didn't you? If you sent it to me by mistake, are you trying to hold me liable for sending it to the wrong person!

Please let us know if you receive it in error

Please? So you're asking me for favours?

and confirm you have destroyed the message entirely.

...apart from the permanent records of everything that comes into this company and all the back ups you mean?

[company] accept no liability whatsoever if this email inadvertently carries with it any "virus" or "viruses" or like unauthorised instruction that causes any damage or loss of function to your computer system. By opening this email, or any attachment you will be bound by these terms.

Now you tell me! (And why didn't you put your disclaimer at the top, before I read the 'confidential communication'?

In particular I have seen a comment that said a poorly written disclaimer could leave you vulnerable because it would override common convention and replace it with something that couldn't be enforced.

photoman

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# 104015 10-Jan-2008 14:28

nate: I've always wondered about the posts that end with something like "all views are mine and don't represent that of abc company".

Could this be enforced? If you are using a company computer, in company time and the post can be tracked back to that company's ip address, would it not be seen as a "company" post?

Most companies have a policy which you sign whereby the computer and email (and anything else) is there for work purposes only. If you then send off emails to friends or whatever, you are in effect breaching those rights. If it went to court, the company could provide proof that you agreed to adhere to their rules, and since the dodgy email you sent wasn't related to work, they couldn't be held accountable. That's the theory anyway.

domainspace

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# 104033 10-Jan-2008 15:59

Yes, but emails do get sent to the wrong adress - it does happen and the sender doesn't always know about it (one letter mistyped and the email arrives in another box). Look, when it comes down to it, mostly nothing will happen but if you're unlucky enough to get caught up in a big case then everything can count. If you accidentally overhear insider information on a stock and act on it are you legally safe? Are you sure? The real answer doesn't always come out until it goes to trial.

weblordpepe

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# 104542 13-Jan-2008 17:46

Personally I wonder what constitutes being 'given permission'.

Technically, the ultimate authority of access to any account is the username/password combo. So is giving somebody your password giving them legal permission to access your services and account?

For example, a dude gives you his Bebo password.

I know that there is laws governing extent of permissions. Eg. your friend lets you borrow his car for a day & you take it for 3 weeks. So do rules apply to what you do with the access to somebody's account? Hmm I love the editor on this forum.

freitasm

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# 104544 13-Jan-2008 17:48

What does this have to do with email disclaimers?

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weblordpepe

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# 104546 13-Jan-2008 18:12

Because its to do with the legality of permission to view documents/services on a computer system. You know that.

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# 104548 13-Jan-2008 18:19

weblordpepe: Because its to do with the legality of permission to view documents/services on a computer system. You know that.

But what does that have to do with disclaimer emails?

With usernames and passwords:

You access service. For instance geekzone where rules and policies are clearly advertised as a condition of registration.
User is prompted for username and password.
User enters details.
User is given details

With emails:

Email is sent.
Email is recieved by SMTP server.
Email is stored in users mailbox.
Email client downloads message
User reads email message WITHOUT any special prompts, agreements etc.
User reads disclaimer
Now user is supposed to magically forget email - and is apparently bound by conditions held at the end of an email that was sent to them???

As far as I can see - its not linked.

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weblordpepe

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# 104550 13-Jan-2008 18:43

Whats with the moderator trolling? Guys, the discussion is about email signatures and the binding they have. Not spend 5 minutes writing a post about how weblordpepe's post is likening email signatures to legal authority, and thus off topic.

Permission to view an email granted or denied by an email signature.
versus
Permission to view content via obtained username/password.

Joe bloggs accidentally logs into his Bebo/banking site on his friends computer.

If there is circumstances when having a username/password does not give you legal rights to view a document, then that deminishes the username/password as authority to view an email/document. Both email signatures and 'if you are not joe bloggs, please log out' messages reference an alternative authority of accessing/viewing data from the username/password combo.
Now there's all kinds of arguments left right & centre about that. Thats why I brought it up- because its half-way related if not at least interesting for the same reason.

cokemaster

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# 104552 13-Jan-2008 18:51

weblordpepe: Whats with the moderator trolling? Guys, the discussion is about email signatures and the binding they have. Not spend 5 minutes writing a post about how weblordpepe's post is likening email signatures to legal authority, and thus off topic.

Permission to view an email granted or denied by an email signature.
versus
Permission to view content via obtained username/password.

Joe bloggs accidentally logs into his Bebo/banking site on his friends computer.

If there is circumstances when having a username/password does not give you legal rights to view a document, then that deminishes the username/password as authority to view an email/document. Both email signatures and 'if you are not joe bloggs, please log out' messages reference an alternative authority of accessing/viewing data from the username/password combo.
Now there's all kinds of arguments left right & centre about that. Thats why I brought it up- because its half-way related if not at least interesting for the same reason.

This is not moderator trolling. Stop crying wolf.

There is a clear difference:

Logging into internet banking/bebo: One is 'pulled' by a web browser (through user interaction) and then SENDS his username and password. By registering and using your account, you agree to the rules + terms
Email: One is PUSHED to your mailbox. Unless you practice reading the end of the email and working yourself, you've in most cases you've read the email and then you see the 'conditions' attached. Then most of the conditions state you have to delete and inform the sender....

We are only talking about the email 'conditions', stop trying to drag things off topic.

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