Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




658 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 204651 11-Oct-2016 13:59
Send private message

I purchased a new violin with a bow 4 months ago for nearly $3,000. Turns out the bow is slightly bent (it was only pointed out to us by a third person. At the time of purchase we didn't think to look at the bow that closely). The trader is convinced that they don't need to provide any after sales service because she discounted the bow 100%. The quoted price for the bow is $480 but on the invoice it does say that it was discounted 100%

 

I believe the bow is faulty and she has a duty to put things right. She reckons we need to sort it out ourselves. Would welcome a second/third/fourth opinion.

 

 





Amanon

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
15161 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649196 11-Oct-2016 14:12
2 people support this post
Send private message

If something is discounted 100% , then they didn't charge for it?

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't things that people aren't charged for, such winning a prize in a competition, covered by the CGA? 

 

It sounds like in this case it was bundled with the product, so I would think it would be covered by the CGA. What do others think?


21286 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1649202 11-Oct-2016 14:16
One person supports this post
Send private message

I mis-read this as CGA - Violent Blow. LOL.

 

No question in my mind that it's covered by the CGA. Regardless of the discount level you "purchased" it. Point out that had you not of bought the violin, she would not have given you a bow, and discounted items, are still required under law to be warrantied.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 




658 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1649222 11-Oct-2016 14:26
Send private message

This issue has been going on for a couple of weeks now. I spoke to the trader this morning who has said that she is seeking legal advice and would get back to me within 3 weeks. She also said that she is very busy person and does not consider this to be a priority. I really want to get this sorted but she is being quite evasive and seems to be deliberately delaying the process.





Amanon

613 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1649224 11-Oct-2016 14:26
2 people support this post
Send private message

I think the sller knew the bow was bent and wrote on the invoice that it was a $100 discount as a dodge.


1846 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649248 11-Oct-2016 14:50
One person supports this post
Send private message

You could politely mention that the small claims court is in existence for this very reason... even filling out the pdf form and emailing it to her may kick her gears into motion. Without you actually having to go through with it...

 

The item may well have been free to you, but would have been sold to you or someone else later for a monetary value, at which point the CGA would apply to the purchaser, and require the seller to replace the item.

 

Gifts aren't exempt from the CGA, and in my mind, the bow was essentially a gift from the seller to sweeten the purchase.

 

Interesting situation nonetheless.


144 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 1649255 11-Oct-2016 14:57
Send private message

I think the "discount" is a complete red herring that you can ignore. You bought a package deal of the violin and a bow.

 

 

 

How the discount for buying the package is shown by the seller is irrelevant. You bought both and therefore, if not for business use (ie are you a professional musician?) then covered by the CGA


1286 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649265 11-Oct-2016 15:10
One person supports this post
Send private message

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act

 

"The Act applies to gifts. If you’re given something, you have the same rights as if you bought it yourself, and can seek redress directly for any problem. It also applies to goods that you hire."

 

 

 

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act-faqs-about-goods

 

"My new mower came with a free TV, which blew up after a week. Is it covered by the Act?
Yes. Free gifts are covered, as are household goods that are hired, rented, leased or bought on hire purchase."





---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


 
 
 
 


2987 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1649266 11-Oct-2016 15:12
One person supports this post
Send private message

I don't know anything about violins or bows.  Just bringing to your attention some questions you might need to answer if you go to Disputes Tribunal or wherever.  No need to waste effort on answering them here if you don't want to. 

 

Presumably straightness of the bow is important to the quality of the music produced. How important? I guess an expert would notice the difference. But would it make any difference to, say, a beginner? Or make any difference to your playing? And/or be noticeable by whoever is listening?

 

Did you buy it from a company rather than an individual? CGA only applies to someone whose business is selling stuff, but Fair Trading and other Acts still apply regardless.

 

Presumably the seller didn't point out that the bow was bent beforehand, and say that that was the reason for the discount?

 

Could it be that the bow was bent *after* the sale? Can a bow be bent by misuse? If it could, then you're going to have to show that you didn't bend it. But otherwise it must be purely a manufacturing defect, I guess.

 

How much would you have paid for the bow (if you had bought it at all) had you known that it was bent? Can it straightened somehow?

 

 

 

 




658 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1649267 11-Oct-2016 15:17
Send private message

frankv:

 

I don't know anything about violins or bows.  Just bringing to your attention some questions you might need to answer if you go to Disputes Tribunal or wherever.  No need to waste effort on answering them here if you don't want to. 

 

Presumably straightness of the bow is important to the quality of the music produced. How important? I guess an expert would notice the difference. But would it make any difference to, say, a beginner? Or make any difference to your playing? And/or be noticeable by whoever is listening?

 

Did you buy it from a company rather than an individual? CGA only applies to someone whose business is selling stuff, but Fair Trading and other Acts still apply regardless.

 

Presumably the seller didn't point out that the bow was bent beforehand, and say that that was the reason for the discount?

 

Could it be that the bow was bent *after* the sale? Can a bow be bent by misuse? If it could, then you're going to have to show that you didn't bend it. But otherwise it must be purely a manufacturing defect, I guess.

 

How much would you have paid for the bow (if you had bought it at all) had you known that it was bent? Can it straightened somehow?

 

 

1. The trader is a registered trader i.e they are GST registered etc.

 

2. Yes - straightness is an issue for playing.

 

3. Yes - they can be straightened by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

4. Yes bows can be bent by the users if they are mishandled or stored badly. This bow has always been handled well so I'm confident that we didn't cause the issue. Off course it is difficult to prove this. But I suspect this is the case with many consumer item returns.





Amanon

21286 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1649272 11-Oct-2016 15:25
2 people support this post
Send private message

Politely but firmly go back to her and say you don't consider 3 weeks a suitable time frame for her response, and that if she is busy, you would prefer her to replace or refund the item, because you too are busy and don't wish for protracted discussions around such a matter. 

 

Paste above segments of the post By sleemanj for her reference and ask for her to get back to you by next Monday. 

 

 


8716 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649274 11-Oct-2016 15:25
One person supports this post
Send private message

If all else fails, then:

 

http://www.ask-a-luthier.com/questions/questions/question_20.htm

 

 

 

I suspect that what they (retailer) did was a little underhand and probably deliberate, and yeah - they probably made a fatal mistake by listing the bow on the invoice at all - even if discounted 100%, as that seems to confirm it as "part of the deal" - and they won't be able to worm their way out.


15161 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649278 11-Oct-2016 15:33
One person supports this post
Send private message

You have to wonder why they didn't just say the bow was a little 'bowed' and say they will throw it in.  That way they are covered etc

 

When you are selling something, you should always be 100% correct with your descriptions and disclose any defects. Otherwise you will  get disappointed customers.

 

 

 

 


15161 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1649293 11-Oct-2016 16:05
One person supports this post
Send private message

Fred99:

 

If all else fails, then:

 

http://www.ask-a-luthier.com/questions/questions/question_20.htm

 

 

 

I suspect that what they (retailer) did was a little underhand and probably deliberate, and yeah - they probably made a fatal mistake by listing the bow on the invoice at all - even if discounted 100%, as that seems to confirm it as "part of the deal" - and they won't be able to worm their way out.

 

 

 

 

Probably don't want to assume things though. It maybe a common practice to bundle a bow anyway, even if not damaged. Mistakes happen so you do have to give people the benefit of the doubt. But it is all the way it is handled afterwards, in terms of post sales customer service.


3363 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1649314 11-Oct-2016 16:33
One person supports this post
Send private message

networkn:

 

Politely but firmly go back to her and say you don't consider 3 weeks a suitable time frame for her response, and that if she is busy, you would prefer her to replace or refund the item, because you too are busy and don't wish for protracted discussions around such a matter. 

 

Paste above segments of the post By sleemanj for her reference and ask for her to get back to you by next Monday. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this.

 

If you don't hear anything back by monday I also find filing disputes tribunal paperwork and paying the $45 gets things moving really fast (they will get the paper work in the mail).

 

Just remember you can not claim back the money paid to file however you can get damages and time wasted can be classed as "damages".

 

 

 

If they agree to replacement etc you can email the courts to cancel the hearing.  I have found this to be one of the best ways to get retailers/sellers moving.  

 

If she things she is busy now she will be a lot busier getting everything ready and wasting 1/2 a day at a hearing for a case you will easily win. 

 

 

 

Also the Disputes tribunal is non lawyers, you go there tell your side of the story, the other party says their side then watch the fire works as the adjudicator rips them a new one :)

 

 

 

 

 

 


BDFL - Memuneh
64660 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1649405 11-Oct-2016 18:48
Send private message

For under $100 you can start a claim in the disputes tribunal and they probably will quickly come to their senses. We took a car dealer there because of a $3000 repair they didn't want to cover. A couple of days before the session they paid... Because it was obvious they had no stand and didn't want to have their name dragged...





 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51


Facebook Portal to land in New Zealand
Posted 19-Sep-2019 18:35



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.