CGA - Violin Bow

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Dulouz

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Topic # 204651 11-Oct-2016 13:59

I purchased a new violin with a bow 4 months ago for nearly $3,000. Turns out the bow is slightly bent (it was only pointed out to us by a third person. At the time of purchase we didn't think to look at the bow that closely). The trader is convinced that they don't need to provide any after sales service because she discounted the bow 100%. The quoted price for the bow is $480 but on the invoice it does say that it was discounted 100%

I believe the bow is faulty and she has a duty to put things right. She reckons we need to sort it out ourselves. Would welcome a second/third/fourth opinion.

Amanon

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Reply # 1649196 11-Oct-2016 14:12

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If something is discounted 100% , then they didn't charge for it?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't things that people aren't charged for, such winning a prize in a competition, covered by the CGA?

It sounds like in this case it was bundled with the product, so I would think it would be covered by the CGA. What do others think?

networkn

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Reply # 1649202 11-Oct-2016 14:16

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I mis-read this as CGA - Violent Blow. LOL.

No question in my mind that it's covered by the CGA. Regardless of the discount level you "purchased" it. Point out that had you not of bought the violin, she would not have given you a bow, and discounted items, are still required under law to be warrantied.

Dulouz

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Reply # 1649222 11-Oct-2016 14:26

This issue has been going on for a couple of weeks now. I spoke to the trader this morning who has said that she is seeking legal advice and would get back to me within 3 weeks. She also said that she is very busy person and does not consider this to be a priority. I really want to get this sorted but she is being quite evasive and seems to be deliberately delaying the process.

Amanon

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Reply # 1649224 11-Oct-2016 14:26

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I think the sller knew the bow was bent and wrote on the invoice that it was a $100 discount as a dodge.

Disrespective

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Reply # 1649248 11-Oct-2016 14:50

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You could politely mention that the small claims court is in existence for this very reason... even filling out the pdf form and emailing it to her may kick her gears into motion. Without you actually having to go through with it...

The item may well have been free to you, but would have been sold to you or someone else later for a monetary value, at which point the CGA would apply to the purchaser, and require the seller to replace the item.

Gifts aren't exempt from the CGA, and in my mind, the bow was essentially a gift from the seller to sweeten the purchase.

Interesting situation nonetheless.

Seakiwi

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Reply # 1649255 11-Oct-2016 14:57

I think the "discount" is a complete red herring that you can ignore. You bought a package deal of the violin and a bow.

How the discount for buying the package is shown by the seller is irrelevant. You bought both and therefore, if not for business use (ie are you a professional musician?) then covered by the CGA

sleemanj

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Reply # 1649265 11-Oct-2016 15:10

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https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act

"The Act applies to gifts. If you’re given something, you have the same rights as if you bought it yourself, and can seek redress directly for any problem. It also applies to goods that you hire."

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act-faqs-about-goods

"My new mower came with a free TV, which blew up after a week. Is it covered by the Act?
Yes. Free gifts are covered, as are household goods that are hired, rented, leased or bought on hire purchase."

---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

frankv

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Reply # 1649266 11-Oct-2016 15:12

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I don't know anything about violins or bows. Just bringing to your attention some questions you might need to answer if you go to Disputes Tribunal or wherever. No need to waste effort on answering them here if you don't want to.

Presumably straightness of the bow is important to the quality of the music produced. How important? I guess an expert would notice the difference. But would it make any difference to, say, a beginner? Or make any difference to your playing? And/or be noticeable by whoever is listening?

Did you buy it from a company rather than an individual? CGA only applies to someone whose business is selling stuff, but Fair Trading and other Acts still apply regardless.

Presumably the seller didn't point out that the bow was bent beforehand, and say that that was the reason for the discount?

Could it be that the bow was bent *after* the sale? Can a bow be bent by misuse? If it could, then you're going to have to show that you didn't bend it. But otherwise it must be purely a manufacturing defect, I guess.

How much would you have paid for the bow (if you had bought it at all) had you known that it was bent? Can it straightened somehow?

Dulouz

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Reply # 1649267 11-Oct-2016 15:17

frankv:

I don't know anything about violins or bows. Just bringing to your attention some questions you might need to answer if you go to Disputes Tribunal or wherever. No need to waste effort on answering them here if you don't want to.

Presumably straightness of the bow is important to the quality of the music produced. How important? I guess an expert would notice the difference. But would it make any difference to, say, a beginner? Or make any difference to your playing? And/or be noticeable by whoever is listening?

Did you buy it from a company rather than an individual? CGA only applies to someone whose business is selling stuff, but Fair Trading and other Acts still apply regardless.

Presumably the seller didn't point out that the bow was bent beforehand, and say that that was the reason for the discount?

Could it be that the bow was bent *after* the sale? Can a bow be bent by misuse? If it could, then you're going to have to show that you didn't bend it. But otherwise it must be purely a manufacturing defect, I guess.

How much would you have paid for the bow (if you had bought it at all) had you known that it was bent? Can it straightened somehow?

1. The trader is a registered trader i.e they are GST registered etc.

2. Yes - straightness is an issue for playing.

3. Yes - they can be straightened by someone who knows what they are doing.

4. Yes bows can be bent by the users if they are mishandled or stored badly. This bow has always been handled well so I'm confident that we didn't cause the issue. Off course it is difficult to prove this. But I suspect this is the case with many consumer item returns.

Amanon

networkn

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Reply # 1649272 11-Oct-2016 15:25

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Politely but firmly go back to her and say you don't consider 3 weeks a suitable time frame for her response, and that if she is busy, you would prefer her to replace or refund the item, because you too are busy and don't wish for protracted discussions around such a matter.

Paste above segments of the post By sleemanj for her reference and ask for her to get back to you by next Monday.

Fred99

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Reply # 1649274 11-Oct-2016 15:25

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If all else fails, then:

http://www.ask-a-luthier.com/questions/questions/question_20.htm

I suspect that what they (retailer) did was a little underhand and probably deliberate, and yeah - they probably made a fatal mistake by listing the bow on the invoice at all - even if discounted 100%, as that seems to confirm it as "part of the deal" - and they won't be able to worm their way out.

mattwnz

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Reply # 1649278 11-Oct-2016 15:33

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You have to wonder why they didn't just say the bow was a little 'bowed' and say they will throw it in. That way they are covered etc

When you are selling something, you should always be 100% correct with your descriptions and disclose any defects. Otherwise you will get disappointed customers.

mattwnz

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Reply # 1649293 11-Oct-2016 16:05

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Fred99:

If all else fails, then:

http://www.ask-a-luthier.com/questions/questions/question_20.htm

I suspect that what they (retailer) did was a little underhand and probably deliberate, and yeah - they probably made a fatal mistake by listing the bow on the invoice at all - even if discounted 100%, as that seems to confirm it as "part of the deal" - and they won't be able to worm their way out.

Probably don't want to assume things though. It maybe a common practice to bundle a bow anyway, even if not damaged. Mistakes happen so you do have to give people the benefit of the doubt. But it is all the way it is handled afterwards, in terms of post sales customer service.

tripp

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Reply # 1649314 11-Oct-2016 16:33

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networkn:

Politely but firmly go back to her and say you don't consider 3 weeks a suitable time frame for her response, and that if she is busy, you would prefer her to replace or refund the item, because you too are busy and don't wish for protracted discussions around such a matter.

Paste above segments of the post By sleemanj for her reference and ask for her to get back to you by next Monday.

I agree with this.

If you don't hear anything back by monday I also find filing disputes tribunal paperwork and paying the $45 gets things moving really fast (they will get the paper work in the mail).

Just remember you can not claim back the money paid to file however you can get damages and time wasted can be classed as "damages".

If they agree to replacement etc you can email the courts to cancel the hearing. I have found this to be one of the best ways to get retailers/sellers moving.

If she things she is busy now she will be a lot busier getting everything ready and wasting 1/2 a day at a hearing for a case you will easily win.

Also the Disputes tribunal is non lawyers, you go there tell your side of the story, the other party says their side then watch the fire works as the adjudicator rips them a new one :)

freitasm

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Reply # 1649405 11-Oct-2016 18:48

For under $100 you can start a claim in the disputes tribunal and they probably will quickly come to their senses. We took a car dealer there because of a $3000 repair they didn't want to cover. A couple of days before the session they paid... Because it was obvious they had no stand and didn't want to have their name dragged...

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