This is cool: Vector installs 'grid-scale' Tesla powerpack in Glen Innes (Auckland)

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Linuxluver

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# 205495 15-Nov-2016 21:21

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Vector has installed Asia Pacific's first grid-scale Tesla powerpack: "Located at Vector’s Glen Innes substation, the Powerpack has a storage capacity of 1MW/2.3MWh, which is the equivalent to powering 450 homes for 2.3 hours."

More of this......please.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1610/S00561/asia-pacifics-first-grid-level-tesla-powerpack-opened.htm

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gzt

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# 1671603 15-Nov-2016 22:29

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It's interesting. It allows lines companies to delay infrastructure upgrades. Potentially it could result in under-investment.

On the positive side it will provide some wiggle room in the upgrade scheduling, allowing more efficient use of upgrade resources.

Any other advantages?

Aredwood

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# 1671612 15-Nov-2016 22:52

And all because they have allowed the ripple control system to become rundown. So most of that stored power will then just get transferred to old school energy storage systems - Hot Water Cylinders.

This would also be extra expensive for Vector as the rules governing the electricity industry say that electricity network assets have to be depreciated over 40 years (AFAIK). Those Lithium batteries won't last 20 years, let alone 40 years. And there is massive efficiency losses in taking AC power, converting it to DC, storing it in batteries, Then re converting that DC back into AC. Sure each step by itself doesn't have that much loss, But add the losses together.... And all of those losses have to be met by fossil fuel generation. As since this is for managing peak demand, There will also be alot of fossil fuel generation is use as well. So the worst part about it is that everyone in Auckland will have to pay more for power because of this.

I hate to think of the number of electric cars that could have been built using those batteries. Instead of using them to just sit in a building.

They could have probably easily managed the capacity issue with active power factor correction. Most likely using an Siemens SVC Plus Transpower already have them at their Penrose substation.

Also keep in mind that LPG costs around 16c per kW/hr. So anything that increases the price gap between Electricity and LPG. Means more electricity usage gets converted to LPG. Which means more carbon emissions.

gzt

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# 1671616 15-Nov-2016 23:04

I could never understand why ripple control was abandoned. I can take a guess that as hot water cylinders became more efficient, it became less worthwhile. With the older ones, any cold night would kill the grid even with no-one home.

Also it may be that base load capacity has increased to handle what remains, and the customers pay, so no advantage in it for retailers.

linw

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# 1671682 16-Nov-2016 08:49

Hope those bombs, sorry, batteries, weren't designed by Samsung!!

On a more serious note, having seen what MUCH smaller lipo batteries can do when things go wrong, I am rather glad I don't live anywhere near that installation.

Interesting thoughts, Aredwood.

hsvhel

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# 1671684 16-Nov-2016 08:55

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Aredwood:

And all because they have allowed the ripple control system to become rundown. So most of that stored power will then just get transferred to old school energy storage systems - Hot Water Cylinders.

This would also be extra expensive for Vector as the rules governing the electricity industry say that electricity network assets have to be depreciated over 40 years (AFAIK). Those Lithium batteries won't last 20 years, let alone 40 years. And there is massive efficiency losses in taking AC power, converting it to DC, storing it in batteries, Then re converting that DC back into AC. Sure each step by itself doesn't have that much loss, But add the losses together.... And all of those losses have to be met by fossil fuel generation. As since this is for managing peak demand, There will also be alot of fossil fuel generation is use as well. So the worst part about it is that everyone in Auckland will have to pay more for power because of this.

I hate to think of the number of electric cars that could have been built using those batteries. Instead of using them to just sit in a building.

They could have probably easily managed the capacity issue with active power factor correction. Most likely using an Siemens SVC Plus Transpower already have them at their Penrose substation.

Also keep in mind that LPG costs around 16c per kW/hr. So anything that increases the price gap between Electricity and LPG. Means more electricity usage gets converted to LPG. Which means more carbon emissions.

Has ripple control been abandoned all together?

sidefx

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# 1671721 16-Nov-2016 09:22

There's apparently a video of it here:

https://www.vector.co.nz/newsdisplay/Video-of-todays-launch-of-the-Tesla-Powerpack-at-Glen-Innes

(Though vimeo doesn't seem to be working from my work so I can't see it)

MikeAqua

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# 1671768 16-Nov-2016 09:46

We had two meters with ripple control.

When the lines company installed smart meters replacement at our place we advised them we wanted to go to a single meter.

The controlled supply was only fractionally cheaper and our HWC electricity usage wasn't actually that high. Having two meters increased fixed charges which more than offset any saving. On balance ripple control cost us money and was at times inconvenient.

Mike

PolicyGuy

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# 1671776 16-Nov-2016 10:00

gzt: I could never understand why ripple control was abandoned. I can take a guess that as hot water cylinders became more efficient, it became less worthwhile. With the older ones, any cold night would kill the grid even with no-one home.

Also it may be that base load capacity has increased to handle what remains, and the customers pay, so no advantage in it for retailers.

The problem is Max Bradford's electricity 'Reforms'

Ripple control is a fairly blunt instrument, and results in whole blocks of variable demand (usually domestic hot water) being turned off and on. However the individual customers now belong to different retailers who may have different market positions and want their particular customers left on or off at different times. Add to that, legal ownership of the ripple control relays is murky - for example if they got transferred to a gentailer with the meters at 'Reform' time, who has the right to command them?
Given that those eggs are now completely scrambled and we're stuck with it, the only likely solution will be to install actually smart meters (not the ones currently being called 'smart', which are only dumb meters with a GPRS cellular modem) that will allow two-way interconnection upstream and downstream and control variable load in the premises.

Another several tens of millions of dollars flushed

richms

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# 1671794 16-Nov-2016 10:44

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gzt: I could never understand why ripple control was abandoned. I can take a guess that as hot water cylinders became more efficient, it became less worthwhile. With the older ones, any cold night would kill the grid even with no-one home.

Also it may be that base load capacity has increased to handle what remains, and the customers pay, so no advantage in it for retailers.

Because it kept failing to trigger due to the amount of harmonics on the lines now vs the 50s when it was developed was the reason I heard.

The shore had (had) a pilot wire system which recently has had all the contactors start to reach their end of life. No idea why they didnt start to repurpose that wire for some slightly more advanced signalling to do load shedding.

Richard rich.ms