Time for nuclear power in NZ?

Forums › Off topic › Time for nuclear power in NZ?

Jonski

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#215330 22-Jun-2017 13:23

I'm not an expert but it seems the days of any new Think Big hydro schemes are over, and Wind is too intermittent without storage technologies. Geothermal has lots of potential but Tidal power is still a work in progress (although Cook Strait and Manukau/Kaipara Harbours are promising locations). Large-scale Solar? Yeah but where?

However Thorium reactors, molten salt and other modern technologies seem to be a way forward. How about putting one near Hamilton where it is at low risk from earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes? It could provide convenient power to both Hamilton and Auckland without needing to ship electrons all the way from Otago.

Although NZ is proudly nuclear-free, that's not quite true. I understand we have a small thermopile reactor at Canterbury Uni and of course we use radioisotopes all the time in various industries. Coal power kills more people globally than nuclear, even taking into account the different installed capacities and it sends more radioactivity into the environment too. Nuclear-weapons-free is absolutely a good thing but are we denying ourselves zero-carbon power for idealogical reasons only?

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#1805144 22-Jun-2017 13:25

I have never quiet understood the kiwi obsession with being anti-nuclear.

6FIEND

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#1805145 22-Jun-2017 13:34

darylblake

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#1805156 22-Jun-2017 13:39

One of the biggest problems with it is waste processing. It still has not been solved properly.

gehenna

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#1805159 22-Jun-2017 13:46

Jonski:

How about putting one near Hamilton where it is at low risk from earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes?

I think the subtext here is along the lines of "because no-one really cares if Hamilton is wiped off the map in a leak scenario anyway"

Pumpedd

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#1805160 22-Jun-2017 13:47

darylblake:

One of the biggest problems with it is waste processing. It still has not been solved properly.

Agreed, nuclear energy would need a lot of work before it was considered. The costs alone may rule it out for NZ, but it does make a lot of environmental sense.

The other issue NZ has at the moment and in the near future is over capacity...the huge uptake of LED's and heat pump type technologies are reducing our needs for electricity. Also Tiwai Smelter is fast outliving its use by date which would create a conundrum as to what to do with Manapouri.

coffeebaron

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#1805162 22-Jun-2017 13:48

Yes!
Happy to stick it in my backyard too, along with a few mobile phone towers.
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mattwnz

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#1805163 22-Jun-2017 13:50

Because it produces toxic waste, which has to be shipped off somewhere. We can't get superman to throw it all into space to get rid of it like the movies. Also at some stage in the future, that stored stuff will need addressing. Also they are not completely safe, and IMO especially in a country which has earthquakes, as learnt by Japan, who are very safe, we ahve been options.

TYhere are also alterntives to wind now, such as photovoltaic, which are getting more and more efficient and cheaper. Hydro too is an option. I am sure that getting a resurce consent for a dam will get less objection than a nuclear power plant, especially as it's location will likely affect people property values. It is all very well suggesting the Tron as a location, but I bet locals wouldn't feel the same way!

As long as we keep NZ a small population which is actually the thing that makes NZ special, then we shouldn't have the need for nuclear. It appears we do already have an oversupply anyway, and big users for surplus power who have been getting it very cheaply, maybe moving in the near future. Even in the US they seem to be moving away from it.

Wiggum

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#1805164 22-Jun-2017 13:52

gehenna:

Jonski:

How about putting one near Hamilton where it is at low risk from earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes?

I think the subtext here is along the lines of "because no-one really cares if Hamilton is wiped off the map in a leak scenario anyway"

Maybe Wanganui or Palmerston North would be better candidates.

JoshWright

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#1805165 22-Jun-2017 13:53

This video from Vox is quite interesting, shows some advancements in Nuclear technology which make it much cleaner and safer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poPLSgbSO6k

SaltyNZ

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#1805167 22-Jun-2017 13:54

Pumpedd:

The other issue NZ has at the moment and in the near future is over capacity...the huge uptake of LED's and heat pump type technologies are reducing our needs for electricity. Also Tiwai Smelter is fast outliving its use by date which would create a conundrum as to what to do with Manapouri.

This is the answer. We don't need nuclear in NZ because we don't have a huge base of energy-hungry industry. I'm not necessarily anti-nuclear: I think it is absolutely a requirement in other places. But I don't think it's necessary here. We can manage on a mix of solar, wind, hydro, geothermal and advanced storage plus a small amount of fast-start dirty supplies (gas turbine, for example) to make up for shortfalls.

It's places like Germany, Japan, Korea, or China with lots of heavy industries that require large amounts of uninterrupted energy that will need to rely more heavily on nuclear. It also couldn't hurt if the world collectively spent more on fusion research. The 'fusion is always 50 years from now' trope is in large part because funding is so limited. With enough funding we could get to the point of knowing whether it was a problem that we could either solve or not, much more quickly.

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mattwnz

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#1805169 22-Jun-2017 13:56

Pumpedd:

darylblake:

One of the biggest problems with it is waste processing. It still has not been solved properly.

Agreed, nuclear energy would need a lot of work before it was considered. The costs alone may rule it out for NZ, but it does make a lot of environmental sense.

The other issue NZ has at the moment and in the near future is over capacity...the huge uptake of LED's and heat pump type technologies are reducing our needs for electricity. Also Tiwai Smelter is fast outliving its use by date which would create a conundrum as to what to do with Manapouri.

Not sure what you mean by 'environmental sense', due to the waste it produces, are you talking about to NZ, or the Earth?. It does make sense if we ship that waste offshore, because it gives the impression that it produces no bad effects on NZ. However somewhere else in the world gets landed with the toxic waste. Hydro, solar and wind are all more environmentally friendly. Hydro may dam rivers and change the look of the landscape, as well as disrupt living things, but it isn't polluting, and those things can be reversed if done properly, without any the long term pollution.

When the smelter closes, then we will have an oversupply of power. It largely comes down to NZs immigration policies, as that will dictate the growth needed for infrastructure. But even though NZs population has been increasing rapidly, infrastructure expenditure has lagged. So we will have to play catchup at some stage, at huge cost to the tax payer.

MikeB4

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#1805171 22-Jun-2017 13:59

Wiggum:

I have never quiet understood the kiwi obsession with being anti-nuclear.

1. Our GDP is mostly on the back of our Primary industries, a nuclear accident would wreck that.

2. We are a geologically unstable land, it would be very risky to build Nuke plants here.

3. An accident with a Wind Farm or a Hydro station is not going to render a large chunk of the country unusable for a very long time

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mattwnz

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#1805189 22-Jun-2017 14:00

Wiggum:

gehenna:

Jonski:

How about putting one near Hamilton where it is at low risk from earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes?

I think the subtext here is along the lines of "because no-one really cares if Hamilton is wiped off the map in a leak scenario anyway"

Maybe Wanganui or Palmerston North would be better candidates.

I probably makes more sense putting a big nuclear power plant in Auckland where the biggest populations is, and also the largest population growth is expected. So less energy is lost during transmission. ALso it isnt an area where you can get energy from Hydro or wind very easily. As long as it is away from any volcanoes. But I can't see too many people suggesting that, due to NIMBYS and it will likely affect peoples property values who have to live close to it.

mattwnz

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#1805192 22-Jun-2017 14:02

MikeB4:

3. An accident with a Wind Farm or a Hydro station is not going to render a large chunk of the country unusable for a very long time

Pretty much forever. It will kill any export business that relies on our clean green image too, eg milk.

SaltyNZ

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#1805195 22-Jun-2017 14:05

mattwnz:

Pretty much forever. It will kill any export business that relies on our clean green image too, eg milk.

Who are you kidding? Green milk is revolting. May as well swish a little water around the bottom of an old pot of white paint.

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