How stupid can people be?

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TinyTim

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#26231 16-Sep-2008 10:18

Last month Stats NZ announced they were dropping saveloys, condensed milk, frozen cheesecakes and fresh peaches from the list of food items it uses to calculate the food price index: Vegetables push food prices up.

And on the radio today there was a story about people stockpiling saveloys and condensed milk because they think they will no longer be able to buy them (Panic buying in Taranaki supermarkets) -- what, because Stats NZ no longer records the prices of those items??!! Are there really such morons out there?

The radio story suggests it was because of a John Campbell story at the time. Didn't they actually listen to the story? The comments at the bottom of that page are just as bad:

James: It never fails. When we have something that works good, tastes good and has withstood the test of time; someone who views the world from behind a desk with a computer and a calculator, tells the masses they can't have savaloys any more. ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHING!!!

Leigh: Love them or hate them for me I remember being driven out to Longburn freezing works butcher with my father and have very fond memories of the sparse white interior of the butcher and all the meat products proudly on display. The best thing about visiting our local butcher - FREE SAVELOYS that would be handed out to throngs of hungry meat loving kiwi kids it's a damn shame that the next generation of children in my family won't be able to experience such a simple but kiwi tradition. Farewell old friend, you will always be in my memory.

I just don't know what to say.

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#165164 17-Sep-2008 20:13

TinyTim:
James: It never fails. When we have something that works good, tastes good and has withstood the test of time; someone who views the world from behind a desk with a computer and a calculator, tells the masses they can't have savaloys any more. ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHING!!!

Leigh: Love them or hate them for me I remember being driven out to Longburn freezing works butcher with my father and have very fond memories of the sparse white interior of the butcher and all the meat products proudly on display. The best thing about visiting our local butcher - FREE SAVELOYS that would be handed out to throngs of hungry meat loving kiwi kids it's a damn shame that the next generation of children in my family won't be able to experience such a simple but kiwi tradition. Farewell old friend, you will always be in my memory.

I just don't know what to say.

All you can really say to that is lol omg roflcopter

pistolpower

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#165205 17-Sep-2008 21:58

lols

Benjip

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#165222 17-Sep-2008 22:39

TinyTim:
Last month Stats NZ announced they were dropping saveloys, condensed milk, frozen cheesecakes and fresh peaches from the list of food items it uses to calculate the food price index: Vegetables push food prices up.

And on the radio today there was a story about people stockpiling saveloys and condensed milk because they think they will no longer be able to buy them (Panic buying in Taranaki supermarkets) -- what, because Stats NZ no longer records the prices of those items??!! Are there really such morons out there?

The radio story suggests it was because of a John Campbell story at the time. Didn't they actually listen to the story? The comments at the bottom of that page are just as bad

Hey, give them some credit. I actually saw that story on Campbell Live and thought it was confusing as hell - I didn't even know what the point of the story was the whole time I was watching it, so I don't blame anyone for being confused. I hardly consider myself stupid :) !

Orangeyness

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#165518 18-Sep-2008 23:20

Haha, Don't you hate it when Stats NZ bans food...

But like Benjip said the apparent retardation of these people may just be caused by John Campbell poor presenting.

riahon

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#165540 19-Sep-2008 07:03

On a similar note did I hear right about sparkles, snifters and tangy fruits no longer being produced?or have I just joined the stupid people? ??

sbiddle

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#165544 19-Sep-2008 07:55

Statistics NZ's data and calculations are flawed in many respects and it's scary to think those flawed calculations are a factor in determining key indicators in the economy.

Take tomatoes for example - they increased by 42.8% in August compared to July. Want to know why? In July we had the cheapest July pricing for tomatoes that we've had for many years due a cancellation of all export crops due to bacteria found on crops. This resulted in a retail price on tomatoes of approximately $3.99 - $4.99 per kg range, well down from the $7.99 - $8.99 range.

Is it fair that inflation is calculated on data that while it's correct (tomatoes did rise by 42.8%) is not actually an an inflationary pressure because the price was skewed?

TinyTim

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#165556 19-Sep-2008 08:39

sbiddle:
Take tomatoes for example - they increased by 42.8% in August compared to July. Want to know why? In July we had the cheapest July pricing for tomatoes that we've had for many years due a cancellation of all export crops due to bacteria found on crops. This resulted in a retail price on tomatoes of approximately $3.99 - $4.99 per kg range, well down from the $7.99 - $8.99 range.

But surely that's balanced by a drop between June and July, and it will all even out in the long term.

More importantly, why is NZ exporting tomatoes in July?? NZ probably has the worst conditions of anywhere in the world in July for tomatoes.

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sbiddle

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#165558 19-Sep-2008 08:49

TinyTim:
sbiddle:
Take tomatoes for example - they increased by 42.8% in August compared to July. Want to know why? In July we had the cheapest July pricing for tomatoes that we've had for many years due a cancellation of all export crops due to bacteria found on crops. This resulted in a retail price on tomatoes of approximately $3.99 - $4.99 per kg range, well down from the $7.99 - $8.99 range.

But surely that's balanced by a drop between June and July, and it will all even out in the long term.

More importantly, why is NZ exporting tomatoes in July?? NZ probably has the worst conditions of anywhere in the world in July for tomatoes.

Yes - in the long term prices do level out, if you look at all fruit & vegetable pricing over a 12 month period you will always see there are highs and lows but the net result is that over a 12 month period you will find the overall median price doesn't vary a lot. If you look at this data over a period of say 5 years you will find that the average price of fruit & vegetables is essentially unchanged with only very minimal increases (several %) of that total time.

The problem is that this skewed data causes inflation. That increase has caused an increase in the food price index which in turn causes an increase in the official inflation rate. We know that prices haven't actually changed over a 12 month period but this skewed data for tomatoes has caused inflationary pressure despite the fact it never actually occured.

NZ exports a lot of tomatoes to Asia & Australia. Ironically while we are exporting tomatoes to Australia in the middle of winter we are also importing them from Australia because of a lack of product in the local marketplace to meet demand. Go figure..

bazzer

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#165565 19-Sep-2008 09:18

sbiddle:
TinyTim:
sbiddle:
Take tomatoes for example - they increased by 42.8% in August compared to July. Want to know why? In July we had the cheapest July pricing for tomatoes that we've had for many years due a cancellation of all export crops due to bacteria found on crops. This resulted in a retail price on tomatoes of approximately $3.99 - $4.99 per kg range, well down from the $7.99 - $8.99 range.

But surely that's balanced by a drop between June and July, and it will all even out in the long term.

More importantly, why is NZ exporting tomatoes in July?? NZ probably has the worst conditions of anywhere in the world in July for tomatoes.

Yes - in the long term prices do level out, if you look at all fruit & vegetable pricing over a 12 month period you will always see there are highs and lows but the net result is that over a 12 month period you will find the overall median price doesn't vary a lot. If you look at this data over a period of say 5 years you will find that the average price of fruit & vegetables is essentially unchanged with only very minimal increases (several %) of that total time.

The problem is that this skewed data causes inflation. That increase has caused an increase in the food price index which in turn causes an increase in the official inflation rate. We know that prices haven't actually changed over a 12 month period but this skewed data for tomatoes has caused inflationary pressure despite the fact it never actually occured.

NZ exports a lot of tomatoes to Asia & Australia. Ironically while we are exporting tomatoes to Australia in the middle of winter we are also importing them from Australia because of a lack of product in the local marketplace to meet demand. Go figure..

That's a kinda short sighted view. The CPI is only an indicative measure of inflation. It certainly isn't the only measure used, and it doesn't "cause" inflationary pressure.

grant_k

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#165582 19-Sep-2008 09:55

riahon: On a similar note did I hear right about sparkles, snifters and tangy fruits no longer being produced?or have I just joined the stupid people? ??

Well, assuming the Herald knows what it's on about, you were dead right there:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10532944

I used to really enjoy Snifters back in the day...

sbiddle

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#165583 19-Sep-2008 09:57

bazzer:
sbiddle:
TinyTim:
sbiddle:
Take tomatoes for example - they increased by 42.8% in August compared to July. Want to know why? In July we had the cheapest July pricing for tomatoes that we've had for many years due a cancellation of all export crops due to bacteria found on crops. This resulted in a retail price on tomatoes of approximately $3.99 - $4.99 per kg range, well down from the $7.99 - $8.99 range.

But surely that's balanced by a drop between June and July, and it will all even out in the long term.

More importantly, why is NZ exporting tomatoes in July?? NZ probably has the worst conditions of anywhere in the world in July for tomatoes.

Yes - in the long term prices do level out, if you look at all fruit & vegetable pricing over a 12 month period you will always see there are highs and lows but the net result is that over a 12 month period you will find the overall median price doesn't vary a lot. If you look at this data over a period of say 5 years you will find that the average price of fruit & vegetables is essentially unchanged with only very minimal increases (several %) of that total time.

The problem is that this skewed data causes inflation. That increase has caused an increase in the food price index which in turn causes an increase in the official inflation rate. We know that prices haven't actually changed over a 12 month period but this skewed data for tomatoes has caused inflationary pressure despite the fact it never actually occured.

NZ exports a lot of tomatoes to Asia & Australia. Ironically while we are exporting tomatoes to Australia in the middle of winter we are also importing them from Australia because of a lack of product in the local marketplace to meet demand. Go figure..

That's a kinda short sighted view. The CPI is only an indicative measure of inflation. It certainly isn't the only measure used, and it doesn't "cause" inflationary pressure.

I agree that it's a simplistic view and the reality being that when fruit & vegetables make up approximately 2.3% of total household expendature (out of approximately 18% spent on food) then a 42.8% increase in tomatoes isn't going to cause inflation. It was merely an example of how skewed data can affect the results - as the big increase in tomatoes was one of the headline stories that featured in all press releases issues by Statistics NZ.

As to whether the CPI causes inflationary pressure I guess that's a matter for debate, it certainly is a key indicator of inflation in the marketplace. Many would argue that a correlation exists between the CPI and OCR, certainly not all the time, but certainly in many cases.

bazzer

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#165594 19-Sep-2008 10:43

sbiddle: I agree that it's a simplistic view and the reality being that when fruit & vegetables make up approximately 2.3% of total household expendature (out of approximately 18% spent on food) then a 42.8% increase in tomatoes isn't going to cause inflation. It was merely an example of how skewed data can affect the results - as the big increase in tomatoes was one of the headline stories that featured in all press releases issues by Statistics NZ.

Really? Because when I read the full release rather than the headlines I learned that cabbages and courgettes had a higher increase than tomatoes! In fact, year to date (an arguably better measure than month by month), tomatoes have had a deflationary effect (down 24.4%). Sounds like you're falling for the same trick you say Stats NZ are. I guess as they say, there's lies, damn lies and statistics.

sbiddle: As to whether the CPI causes inflationary pressure I guess that's a matter for debate, it certainly is a key indicator of inflation in the marketplace. Many would argue that a correlation exists between the CPI and OCR, certainly not all the time, but certainly in many cases.

That may be so, but correlation does not imply causation. In any case, as you say (and as I said), CPI is merely an indicator of inflation.

morganiser

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#167210 25-Sep-2008 23:23

how stupid? a: very, very stupid
We've all seen the person parked on the onramp waiting for a gap in the traffic to pull out, when they could have easily merged if they had stayed at speed... it's just a fact that understanding everyday life is tough for some (dare i say alot) of people. Free public schooling hasnt cured the fact that some people stil run windows 3.1 in their craniums.

(The whole CPI is subjective. OK so they have removed condensed milk and savs, I suppose they are no longer seen as 'staples'. But that begs the question what have they added in thers places? Perhaps the price of a starbucks latte?)

bazzer

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#167228 26-Sep-2008 02:14

They mentioned that in the piece on Campbell didn't they?

Added to the basket
Fresh pineapple replaces fresh peaches
Cooked chicken, priced at supermarkets, and joins frozen-whole, fresh pieces, and takeaway chicken that are already in the basket
Soy milk replaces condensed milk in the milk, cheese and eggs class
Free-range eggs joins standard eggs
Hummus dip added due to growth in popularity
Frozen desserts, covers a broad range, including cheesecake
Chilled fruit juice and smoothies, joins 1-litre and 3-litre shelf-stable fruit juices

Removed from the basket
Fresh peaches replaced by pineapple, although other stone fruit, such as nectarines, remain in the basket
Saveloys, sausages remain in the basket
Condensed milk replaced by soy milk
Cheesecake, now covered by the broader frozen desserts category

rb85

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#167314 26-Sep-2008 12:09

OMGWTFBBQ?!?!?!

(Drops headphones and runs to local to buy up all the Saveloys!)

Oh - and to answer your question.

How stupid can people be?

(Region dependant) VERY Stupid!!

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