Anyone have disputes tribunal experience?

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David321

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#271774 26-May-2020 18:34

Hi all,

Recently about 3.5k worth of international flights I had have been cancelled due to COVID19, my airline (Lufthansa) are providing cash refunds, but as I purchased through STA Travel the cash refund will go to them first and my travel agent has said they will keep the cash refund and only provide a 12 month STA voucher.

I understand this is unreasonable behavior from STA Travel and even illegal and I have made my displeasure with this quite clear but the agent is sticking to her guns and saying there is no exceptions. As I purchased the tickets with my visa debit as a "chip and pin" transaction in store the bank can not do a charge-back as it was not technically a visa purchase, so my next step is the disputes tribunal.

I have not looked in to this to much as I was hoping the bank could sort things for me, but now that I know they can not help I need to learn how to go about taking the agent to the disputes tribunal and what to expect when there and what happens after the outcome etc? As far as I am aware I fill out the form online and submit it for approval?

I am curious if the legal expert rules in my favor what happens next? I have heard disputes tribunal rulings are unenforceable? so if that is the case should I be doing something other than the disputes tribunal, or is this the way to go? and how will I make the agent pay me back if that is the suggested outcome and they still refuse?

_David_

dolsen

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#2492095 26-May-2020 18:45

Mental note - don't ever use STA Travel.

MartynC

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#2492108 26-May-2020 18:56

Have a look at:

https://disputestribunal.govt.nz/going-to-a-hearing/decision-in-your-favour/

"If a decision is not followed

You can:

apply to the District Court to enforce the Order
hire a debt collection agency to collect any payment that you are owed. They may charge a set fee or a percentage of the payment
get a lawyer to act for you. A formal letter from a lawyer may be enough to get the decision followed."

SaltyNZ

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#2492120 26-May-2020 19:21

I've done it, it's pretty straightforward. Fill out the form, pay your fee (a pretty low fee, too) and you will get a date in the mail shortly. Collect and make printed copies of all your evidence - what you paid, proof that it was cancelled, and all the correspondence with STA - and make yourself some notes on what you want to say. You may bring someone to support but not represent you. In other words, no lawyers: you do your own talking. Just explain the situation honestly and give them copies of your correspondence.

The adjudicator may decide on the spot, or provide a decision in writing in a week or two. Either way it is pretty fast and no-nonsense.

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Handle9

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#2492121 26-May-2020 19:23

@dejadeadnz you might want to make some suggestions.

Handle9

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#2492123 26-May-2020 19:26

Disputes tribunal orders are legally enforceable but you have to enforce them - the disputes tribunal doesn't do this. If they didn't pay you have to issue an enforcement order or a maybe winding up proceedings in the district court. Generally companies pay out but YMMV. Rogue traders are a whole different can of beans.

freitasm

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#2492127 26-May-2020 19:35

Read this thread as well.

kiwiharry

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#2492213 26-May-2020 20:18

Maybe this will also be of some help before you lodge a dispute with the DT .

http://www.travelinc.co.nz/content/news/hot-off-the-press/item/6286-taanz-responds-to-consumer-nz-criticism

TAANZ has come out swinging in response to comments made by Consumer NZ's Jessica Wilson on Radio NZ on Monday of this week. CEO Andrew Olsen has written to both Radio NZ and Consumer NZ – here's his letter in full to Consumer's Jessica Wilson.

Dear Jessica

I have received many complaints form TAANZ members today today taking offence at the comments made by you on RNZ today.

Consumers have booked tickets for flights, the flight is no longer going ahead, the airline has announced its refunding passengers and travellers have booked through a travel agent and the travel agent is not passing on that refund.

"Travel agents have got no legitimate reason to hold those funds, they should be passing on the refund to their customers."

If travel agents play "hard-ball" and refuse to cough up the refund, Wilson said customers should approach their card issuer and ask for a charge back. Failing that consumers should go to the Disputes Tribunal for a refund.

"It's a clear cut case in our book that they should be passing on the refund to their customers. Not relying on some hidden term in their contract that they can hold the funds and only issue a credit."

Since the first travel advisories began and as the crisis deepened Ttravel agents have processed thousands of refunds on time. It’s a shame no mention was made of the often free public service agents have provided thousands of Kiwis at this time.

The main reason for refunds being held up is in fact some – and I stress some – airlines are struggling to meet the deadlines they should be meeting under their airline ticketing scheme rules. TAANZ is addressing these issues and seeking accountability from those who are slow to act.

Many customers are also assuming because the service was cancelled and there is no certainty when the airline will be able to provide carriage, they can obtain a refund on non-refundable tickets. Most airlines have adopted a credit policy for non-refundable fares which in some cases means tickets can be redeemed for up to 24 months. The credit policy is not the travel agent policy. The agent is the meat in the sandwich and is not holding onto the funds. The funds are with the airline.

If you have any consumer complaints about a TAANZ member please refer them to info@taanz.org.nz and we’ll help straighten out the issue.

Consumer’s help desk team can check for our members here https://taanz.org.nz/agents/?agentname=&address=

I would also appreciate you taking this back to RNZ and straightening the record with them and consumers who have a high regard for the important role you play in the community, particularly at this time.

I can be contacted any time about any other travel related matters.

Regards
Andrew Olsen
CEO TAANZ

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dejadeadnz

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#2492271 26-May-2020 20:54

Handle9:

Disputes tribunal orders are legally enforceable but you have to enforce them - the disputes tribunal doesn't do this. If they didn't pay you have to issue an enforcement order or a maybe winding up proceedings in the district court. Generally companies pay out but YMMV. Rogue traders are a whole different can of beans.

STA will be trading under the auspice of a company. Once someone has a decision from the DT, you can enforce it either through the DC or make a statutory demand under the Companies Act. Most companies will pay up following a DT order. I think STA is on very dodgy grounds morally and almost certainly legally as well. The airline is likely refunding the airfares due to the EU rules that apply to all flights to EU countries and unless they can clearly point to an enforceable set of Ts&Cs (very debatable), given that STA acts as the agent of the airline, they ought to be bound by the decision of their principal.

The OP should make a demand in writing for his money back. If that doesn't work, attempt a bank charge back if he paid by credit card. The next step is to go to the DT. He has little to lose.

Geektastic

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#2492310 26-May-2020 21:44

I took an individual to the DT. I won (he neither appeared nor submitted) and passed the debt to Baycorp.

They got nowhere and the individual is due in court charged with a wide variety of offences relating to obtaining funds by deception etc shortly. However, I have very little expectation that any significant punishment will be handed out and almost none that I will see any of my $6500 again.

A company the size of STA ought to be a whole different thing though and if you win, I would have some confidence that they will pay you. I would certainly file the complaint - that alone might get you paid.

mclean

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#2492565 27-May-2020 09:59

I assume the STA acts as agent to establish a contract between you and Lufthansa. If you're due a refund under that contract then you may need to seek remedy from the airline, not the agent. I'm not sure about that, but if you're going to the DT then you need to be sure.

dejadeadnz

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#2493058 27-May-2020 18:00

mclean:

I assume the STA acts as agent to establish a contract between you and Lufthansa. If you're due a refund under that contract then you may need to seek remedy from the airline, not the agent. I'm not sure about that, but if you're going to the DT then you need to be sure.

Wrong. Under the laws of agency, if STA was acting as the agent of the airline, they are bound to follow all lawful instructions and decisions of their principal. In that case STA has no leg to stand on.

David321

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#2494840 30-May-2020 10:09

Thanks for all the replies guys, been really helpful!

So it looks like STA may have changed their policy as of the first of May, there is a sentence in their new policy which states "In many cases, if we get a refund from your travel provider, we will pass that refund on to you.". I have emailed my travel agent asking her to confirm that this now means that a cash refund will be passed on the customer if supplied by the airline, or if their position is the same as what she originally told me in that STA will keep the cash and only provide STA credit, she has not gotten back to me about that yet but it looks promising.

The problem I have with them now is that the agent is saying a refund from the airline can take up to three months and STA may take up to two months to pass the refund on to me once they have it. I understand the industry has been turned on its head and that refunds may take a while, but is 3 months reasonable from the airline followed by two months from STA? Id have to wait up to 5 months!

I can not really argue with Lufthansa at all as they will not discuss my tickets at all with me when I call them as the will only deal with the agent who bought them, so that leaves me to argue with STA who have proven more than difficult to deal with for me so far.

Frankly I have had it with them, with them telling me they would be keeping my 3.5k cash refund from the airline and only passing on a STA voucher to be used within 12 months, to now telling me any refund could be up to 6 months away. As I am waiting to hear back about their policy change (hoping ill get the cash now), is there any sort of law or right I have that I can go back to her with and say that the time frame is to long?

I am a reasonable guy but STA have done my head in and I have lost all patience with them so whatever I can fight back with in regards to the time frame ill use.

Thanks

_David_

surfisup1000

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#2494970 30-May-2020 11:34

David321:

Thanks for all the replies guys, been really helpful!

When it is difficult to get money owed it usually means there is no immediate money available.

I wonder if STA are using customer refunds to pay for wages and expenses. They shouldn't be, but, desperate times can cause people to make poor decisions.

Unfortunately, there is a good chance that a number of travel agencies will fail after government handouts end. You should try to get STA to hurry your claim before this happens.

Good luck!! This situation is very bad for both travel companies and their customers.

David321

485 posts

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#2495219 30-May-2020 18:12

surfisup1000:

Unfortunately, there is a good chance that a number of travel agencies will fail after government handouts end. You should try to get STA to hurry your claim before this happens.

This is what I am trying to do, but the travel agent says it can take up to three months for the airline to provide the refund and then a further 60 days for them to pass it on. I would like to know what my rights are in regards to time frames, as the agent just says there is nothing she can do about it.

_David_