Is discussing your salary legal?

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BlueShift

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#303787 9-Mar-2023 10:26

One for all the amateur employment lawyers out there:

In the US, and various other jurisdictions, it is explicitly illegal to prevent employees discussing their salaries with each other.

I'd like to know if this is the case in NZ. I know a lot of Kiwi folk are reluctant to reveal what they earn, and a lot of employers are very happy to encourage that mindset.

But I recently heard of an employer stating that their staff are not allowed to reveal their salaries to each other. It doesn't stop the staff whispering in private, but it does mean that in salary negotiations it wouldn't be easy to say, "Well Joe gets $20K more than me for the same job".

Sounds dodgy to me.

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#3047942 9-Mar-2023 10:36

a quick goolge https://privacy.org.nz/tools/knowledge-base/view/452#:~:text=No,%20only%20if%20you've,is%20governed%20by%20employment%20law.

Can my employer require me to keep my salary secret?
No, only if you’ve agreed to keep your salary secret in your employment contract.

While your salary is your personal information, the Privacy Act doesn’t require you to keep it confidential. The question is governed by employment law. If your employer has added this term or condition to your employment contract you may want to discuss the need for secrecy with your employer before you accept it or seek legal advice.

Pretty sure every employment contract Ive ever seen has said you cannot discuss however.

Geektastic

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#3047943 9-Mar-2023 10:37

IANAL

However FWIW I would think that - unless specifically prohibited by a contract clause - it would be pretty hard to find a way to actually take action against an employee for this.

Not that that would prevent a certain kind of employer from making your life miserable anyway.

tchart

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#3047951 9-Mar-2023 10:42

AFAIK it’s not illegal and I don’t think they can prevent you from discussing.

As you alluded to employers don’t encourage it because it helps them keep salaries low(er) since you really have no idea what you’re actually worth.

They will also usually say “don’t discuss because we are paying you more” and they don’t want to create bad morale - but without discussion who would know - you might actually be getting under paid etc.

On the flip side there is a similar situation with posting salary ranges for positions. They almost never put a range in NZ. I have noticed that some states in the US now require a salary range and I have seen employers skirt this by putting a silly range of 50k to 500k. Which is basically the same as not putting a range.

Government jobs in NZ will usually put a grade with a job description eg A-Z and these usually match a narrower salary range (which is public information)

tchart

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#3047954 9-Mar-2023 10:45

reven:
Pretty sure every employment contract Ive ever seen has said you cannot discuss however.

Really? It’s been a while but I don’t recall ever seeing that in one of my contracts.

reven

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#3047957 9-Mar-2023 10:47

nope I was wrong. Got curious and re-read mine, doesnt mention it.

elpenguino

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#3048010 9-Mar-2023 10:58

I have had this clause in a contract from my current employer, which I ignored as I am pretty sure it wouldn't be enforceable or legal for my low level position.

Also had a restraint of trade clause , which I would have ignored. Both of these clauses were unilaterally withdrawn by the employer on legal advice.

Just an example of over reach from our corporate over lords while a certain chap was head of HR.

Kiwis certainly are reluctant to discuss it with colleagues or even friends. It's always a bit awkward when you start the ball rolling and don't get a response !

But knowledge is power so don't be kept in the dark and fed on BS like a mushroom.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Linux

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#3048030 9-Mar-2023 11:35

The " restraint of trade clause " is a joke and will never be enforced

A company I worked for would do garden leave in some cases 3 months paid leave before you start new job

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elpenguino

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#3048034 9-Mar-2023 11:46

Linux: The " restraint of trade clause " is a joke and will never be enforced

A company I worked for would do garden leave in some cases 3 months paid leave before you start new job

It's over reach, pure and simple.

If you have a trade or profession, you use that skill to feed your family.

As a lower level worker, you don't have any special knowledge that can be used against the employer. For a senior exec, yeah, I get it.

If you're going to be unable to work in your profession for anyone else, of course you get paid enough that you won't have to work when you leave, right?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Handsomedan

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#3048040 9-Mar-2023 12:04

I've never discussed the exact mount that I get paid with colleagues, but I have worked for a long time in an industry where "salary bands" exist.

I remember talking to a colleague and being asked which band I was in. We did slightly different jobs, but were on the same band. I was at the very limit of the top of my band and would have required a promotion to get a pay rise. She was the same. We worked out we earned the same without mentioning the amount.

Where I am now does have salary bands, but doesn't have them easily available for scrutiny. In fact I am unsure if I could find anything on our intranet about it.

I am so used to negotiating my own worth when joining a company and during salary reviews, that I don't really think about it. If someone was earning more than I for the same job, I would put that down to my own poor negotiation skills.

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Geektastic

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#3048043 9-Mar-2023 12:08

Linux: The " restraint of trade clause " is a joke and will never be enforced

A company I worked for would do garden leave in some cases 3 months paid leave before you start new job

I know at least one company that has that type of clause and they have taken previous providers to court and won every time.

However it is a slightly different scenario - those under restraint are stand alone owner/operator companies providing services to the branded company. They are not direct employees.

Batwing

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#3048246 9-Mar-2023 17:11

Mentioned my pay in my new job, at the same employer but s significant step up a couple years ago.

My higher paid colleagues were shocked, not by the pay, but that I was somehow sharing a very personal.

Discussing your pay is good solidarity imo.

GV27

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#3048426 10-Mar-2023 09:00

Salary is one bit. People should also be talking about what redundancy entitlements they get too.

If you haven't jumped ship in a while you might be shocked at what is offered by way of redundancy for many contracts at a below senior level.

In the time I've been in the workforce I've seen contracts go from offering a month + 1 week for each six months of service to literally a single week.

irpegg

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#3048447 10-Mar-2023 09:11

I always tell people that i mentor/train so if they get promoted they know the target and don't get lowballed on their new salary bands.

Senecio

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#3048458 10-Mar-2023 09:53

The most important salary discussion you will have is the first one you have when you join a new business. Once you join you enter their annual salary review process (if they have one) which means your salary will likely stay pegged loosely to inflation. There's often very little scope within that annual process to reward high performers. If the company set a budget of ~3% salary increase even the highest performers in the business may only achieve ~4.5% increase

Even if you are successful for an internal promotion you can be damn sure they are likely offering you less than they would if they had gone to market outside of the business.

scuwp

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#3048472 10-Mar-2023 10:29

It's not just salary, it's also conditions and overall package. For example, I work with some people who have a 35 hour week, while I have a 40 hour week, is our pay different? I simply don't know. Other employment benefits also come into the equality or 'value' conversation, such as work flexibility, insurance, allowances for tools/equipment...I could go on. Some of these things are easier to discuss than simply $$.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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