New pathway to citizenship for Kiwis living in Australia to be anounced on Anzac Day

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Wombat1

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#304259 18-Apr-2023 15:16

I know that a lot of people are eagerly awaiting this announcement on Anzac day, not sure yet if it will affect just kiwis living and working in Australia, or new immigrants too?

Lets see what happens.

https://inqld.com.au/politics/2023/04/18/anzac-fix-it-albanese-to-strike-deal-with-kiwi-pm-on-citizenship-laws/

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#3065566 19-Apr-2023 14:08

I guarantee you that no matter what gets announced, a lot of Aussie bogans are going to have a hissy fit. There's a lot more animosity toward "ferrinners" in modern Australia than you might expect - it's really disappointing. The redditors on /r/australia will rage about "people from third world countries using New Zealand as a back door to Australia" (ignoring that said people would find themselves far more welcome in New Zealand anyway).

I would suspect that at the very least, time spent on an unprotected SCV in Australia will be counted towards the usual period of residence for citizenship application process, though cynically it's more likely they just extend the 189 New Zealand stream so it covers anyone on an unprotected SCV no matter when they arrive so they can still collect a cool $4275.

Silvrav

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#3065582 19-Apr-2023 14:15

Kyanar:

I guarantee you that no matter what gets announced, a lot of Aussie bogans are going to have a hissy fit. There's a lot more animosity toward "ferrinners" in modern Australia than you might expect - it's really disappointing. The redditors on /r/australia will rage about "people from third world countries using New Zealand as a back door to Australia" (ignoring that said people would find themselves far more welcome in New Zealand anyway).

I would suspect that at the very least, time spent on an unprotected SCV in Australia will be counted towards the usual period of residence for citizenship application process, though cynically it's more likely they just extend the 189 New Zealand stream so it covers anyone on an unprotected SCV no matter when they arrive so they can still collect a cool $4275.

NZ is not an easily accessible country anymore, as it was 5 years ago. Path to residency, and ultimately citizenship has changed quite a bit and is not "easy" anymore unless you on specifics skills list. Come may, even partners of people granted work visas wont obtain open work visas anymore and must obtain their own work visas.

But yes, lots of people use to use NZ to get into Australia, but I think this has and will reduce in the near future.

I do feel though NZ needs to focus more on keeping talent and not just being a door to other countries.

Wombat1

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#3065618 19-Apr-2023 15:14

Kyanar:

I guarantee you that no matter what gets announced, a lot of Aussie bogans are going to have a hissy fit. There's a lot more animosity toward "ferrinners" in modern Australia than you might expect - it's really disappointing. The redditors on /r/australia will rage about "people from third world countries using New Zealand as a back door to Australia" (ignoring that said people would find themselves far more welcome in New Zealand anyway).

I would suspect that at the very least, time spent on an unprotected SCV in Australia will be counted towards the usual period of residence for citizenship application process, though cynically it's more likely they just extend the 189 New Zealand stream so it covers anyone on an unprotected SCV no matter when they arrive so they can still collect a cool $4275.

Kiwis do have it a lot easier to get into Aus, some come without any formal qualifications, or when they too old and therefore this makes it more difficult for those people to get citizenship. Those with skills/qualifications are able to apply for citizenship the same way as other that come in on work visas, and later progress to PR/citizenship. To be honest I think kiwis are pretty well looked after here, we just complain a lot. We have not applied for our citizenship yet as we waiting to see what the changes are going to be. We currently here on SCV visas and in my mind we are pretty well looked after already, we able to come into this country and just work, buy a house, and even have full access to medicare. Sure there is the lack of some benefits but those are mostly if you out of work. We have it a whole lot better that those that come in from other countries on working visa's. My wife is in aged care and has just had her entire Diploma of Leadership and Management fully paid for by QLD goverment. No student loan. This would never have happened in NZ. My daughter is doing a trade through Taif, no student loan there either. We have no reason to complain and bash the Aus system at all. Other daughter still in school.

Silvrav:

NZ is not an easily accessible country anymore, as it was 5 years ago. Path to residency, and ultimately citizenship has changed quite a bit and is not "easy" anymore unless you on specifics skills list. Come may, even partners of people granted work visas wont obtain open work visas anymore and must obtain their own work visas.

But yes, lots of people use to use NZ to get into Australia, but I think this has and will reduce in the near future.

I do feel though NZ needs to focus more on keeping talent and not just being a door to other countries.

If Aussie had to open the doors and allow all Kiwis to just come here and apply for citizenship then I fear for NZ actually. It propably needs to be done, but I think NZ will be the one losing and the migration from NZ to Aus will increase tenfold.

Kyanar

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#3065749 19-Apr-2023 16:24

Silvrav:

NZ is not an easily accessible country anymore, as it was 5 years ago. Path to residency, and ultimately citizenship has changed quite a bit and is not "easy" anymore unless you on specifics skills list. Come may, even partners of people granted work visas wont obtain open work visas anymore and must obtain their own work visas.

But yes, lots of people use to use NZ to get into Australia, but I think this has and will reduce in the near future.

I do feel though NZ needs to focus more on keeping talent and not just being a door to other countries.

Most of the issues that Australians have is the Pacific Island visa lottery scheme that New Zealand runs. Yes, it requires a job offer, but that's pretty easy to game, and allows you to bring an entire family with working rights over - and Australians fear all those Tongans and Fijians coming in via New Zealand (even though in practice, it wouldn't really happen).

surfisup1000

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#3065753 19-Apr-2023 16:31

Wombat1:

I know that a lot of people are eagerly awaiting this announcement on Anzac day, not sure yet if it will affect just kiwis living and working in Australia, or new immigrants too?

Lets see what happens.

https://inqld.com.au/politics/2023/04/18/anzac-fix-it-albanese-to-strike-deal-with-kiwi-pm-on-citizenship-laws/

If it is simple and fair, my prediction is we'll see a large number of middle NZ kiwis moving to Australia. I have some friends moved their young family to NSW at the beginning of the year, loving it, so far. NZ is becoming a cesspool, more so than any other time in my life.

Kyanar

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#3065756 19-Apr-2023 16:36

Wombat1:

Kiwis do have it a lot easier to get into Aus, some come without any formal qualifications, or when they too old and therefore this makes it more difficult for those people to get citizenship. Those with skills/qualifications are able to apply for citizenship the same way as other that come in on work visas, and later progress to PR/citizenship. To be honest I think kiwis are pretty well looked after here, we just complain a lot. We have not applied for our citizenship yet as we waiting to see what the changes are going to be. We currently here on SCV visas and in my mind we are pretty well looked after already, we able to come into this country and just work, buy a house, and even have full access to medicare. Sure there is the lack of some benefits but those are mostly if you out of work. We have it a whole lot better that those that come in from other countries on working visa's. My wife is in aged care and has just had her entire Diploma of Leadership and Management fully paid for by QLD goverment. No student loan. This would never have happened in NZ. My daughter is doing a trade through Taif, no student loan there either. We have no reason to complain and bash the Aus system at all. Other daughter still in school.

Ah, the Fee-Free TAFE. I would point out that you're actually wrong about it never happening in New Zealand though, it's been a thing for years. Though I will note that the eligibility for Free-Free TAFE is significantly wider than NZ's Fees-Free Study program.

One of the biggest pitfalls of the unprotected SCV that you won't miss until you need it, is the lack of access to NDIS. If you or one of your children (heaven forbid!) become permanently injured and need support, Australia's response will be to declare that you no longer meet the health requirements of your visa and deport you. A permanent resident or citizen will be able to access subsidised or even free support services including financial assistance to modify their homes to accomodate their disability.

A second pitfall, and this is a massive one, is passing on your citizenship. A New Zealand citizenship can only pass one generation outside New Zealand before it's exhausted. What that means is if your child was born in Australia, and had a child with another New Zealander born in Australia, their child would be eligible for neither New Zealand nor Australian citizenship at birth! Weird but true.

On the benefits thing, you are eligible for a one time six month jobseeker benefit if you've been present for ten years though.

Wombat1:

If Aussie had to open the doors and allow all Kiwis to just come here and apply for citizenship then I fear for NZ actually. It propably needs to be done, but I think NZ will be the one losing and the migration from NZ to Aus will increase tenfold.

I very much doubt that would happen. Australians (of which I am one now, I guess) like to talk about how much they love New Zealand but poke fun at it, but immigration is one topic where out comes the fangs. At best, there might be some way of opening availability of the NZ stream visa that the last government introduced, similar to the Hong Kong stream - or some recognition of time spent on an unprotected SCV towards applying for citizenship.

Handle9

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#3065761 19-Apr-2023 16:48

This makes Australia a more attractive destination for us in the medium term. If we can, we plan to do one more expat posting, and then return somewhere in the southern hemisphere. Given the amount of time we've been away Australia is as good as NZ to re-enter.

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Kyanar

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#3065767 19-Apr-2023 17:38

I doubt they will just open the floodgates - even with the 189 NZ stream they opened up in 2016, you still had to meet health requirements to make sure you didn't have any chronic diseases which they would suddenly become responsible for treating for the rest of your life, etc. I strongly suspect that whatever happens it will still require the temporary->permanent residence jump, but may relax some of the restrictions about that. Australia does love a good bureaucracy!

FailedWOF

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#3065798 19-Apr-2023 19:33

Wombat1:

A second pitfall, and this is a massive one, is passing on your citizenship. A New Zealand citizenship can only pass one generation outside New Zealand before it's exhausted. What that means is if your child was born in Australia, and had a child with another New Zealander born in Australia, their child would be eligible for neither New Zealand nor Australian citizenship at birth! Weird but true.

Not entirely correct.

You're correct that without at least one parent being an Australian citizen at the time of birth, they won't automatically obtain Australian citizenship themselves by birth. They will be considered a temporary resident under the same visa class as their parents. However, if the child was born in Australia and has been ordinarily resident in Australia for 10 consecutive years, the child may automatically acquire Australian citizenship on their 10th birthday regardless of the parents’ citizenship or immigration status.

You're also correct that by being born overseas where both parents are New Zealand citizens themselves by descent (i.e. both parents were born outside NZ to NZ citizen parents that were born in NZ, second generation by descent), they're not automatically eligible for NZ citizenship by descent themselves. However, there a couple of options:

One or both NZs parent can change their citizenship by descent to citizenship by grant, but this has the same requirements as anyone else (most notably, 5 years presence in NZ). Probably not a likely option for most, though
Have the child in NZ. It would require a stay of a few months due to pregnancy travel restrictions, but elimates the issue and resets the descent limitation
Section 9(1) of the NZ Citizenship Act allows for NZ citizenship to be granted to a child born to parents that are NZ citizens themselves by descent where, by not granting NZ citizenship, that child would be stateless (i.e. not eligible for citizenship of any country and not eligibile for NZ citizenship by grant in their own right). Section 21(8) of the Australian Citizenship Act has the same provision for children born in Australia that would otherwise be stateless. But with both parents being NZ citizens, they would need to apply through the NZ pathway first (and be declined) before that would become an option.

So yes, you'd be correct by saying they're not automatically eligible, and it's a less straight forward process than simply filling in a form. But to say they're blanket not eligible for either, when there are clear provisions in the Citizenship Acts of both countries to prevent stateless children, isn't correct.

An issue that wasn't touched on. If a child is born in Australia where one parent is an Australian citizen and the other parent is a NZ citizen by descent (i.e. the second generation scenario), they will only be eligible for Australian citizenship. In order to obtain NZ citizenship they would need to apply for it by grant after they turn 16 and have met all of the standard requirements.

tchart

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#3065825 19-Apr-2023 20:58

Silvrav:

NZ is not an easily accessible country anymore, as it was 5 years ago. Path to residency, and ultimately citizenship has changed quite a bit and is not "easy" anymore unless you on specifics skills list.

^ THIS

I knew lots of friends/colleagues who came to NZ as "residents" (in the early 2000s) and then buggered off to Oz after 3 years but things have changed significantly.

Its no longer 3 years but 5 for citizenship
Residency is by expression of interest and invitation only now - no longer simply guarenteed by points

Looking at the points calculator if you dont have a qualification and job offer you'd be under the threshold to even "express interest"

Its defintely easier than Australia but harder than it was 10-20 years ago.

gzt

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#3066824 22-Apr-2023 09:19

And there it all is:

RadioNZ: from 1 July, New Zealanders who have been on the Special Category Visa and lived in Australia for four years will be able to get citizenship. They will still need to meet standard criteria (such as pass a character check, a language test, and intend to stay in Australia), and attend a citizenship ceremony.

Cost and child birth rules

NZHerald: The cost will be a standard processing fee of A$490 - or about NZ$534 - which is well below the current fees of over A$4000, or about NZ$4360.

Children born in Australia since July 1, 2022, to a New Zealand parent living there, will also automatically be entitled to citizenship, making critical services available to them.

That will be a huge relief to long term NZers in Australia. I'm sure there will be a few celebrations tonight.

The good character aspect probably means the 501s will continue to come through the pipe for a while yet.

Eva888

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#3066827 22-Apr-2023 09:42

I wonder if anything changes for retirees moving to Australia.

Wombat1

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#3066837 22-Apr-2023 10:31

Great to read about this on the news this morning. We had everything ready to go with our PR application, now we can put it off, save that money, and wait another 3 years and just become Aussie citizens. Going to have to have a couple of drinks tonight in Brisbane.

Kyanar

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#3067042 22-Apr-2023 18:30

gzt: The good character aspect probably means the 501s will continue to come through the pipe for a while yet.

Not entirely. Another direction has been issued that requires the Department of Home Affairs to consider how long a person has lived in Australia when deciding whether to deport (not just for New Zealanders, but everyone) to prevent exporting Australia's problem to countries in which the deportee has almost no connection.

surfisup1000

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#3067043 22-Apr-2023 18:33

Awesome news about being easier to get into Aussie. There don't seem to be any real fish hooks.

I see the flood gates opening for people to leave, at least if people are able to overcome the bonds to family and friends. Some friends left for NSW several months back, loving it!! Much higher income and a government that treats their people with respect!

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