Another earthquake in NZ? A very convincing video on youtube.

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Cululu

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#78655 5-Mar-2011 10:15

You can watch it on youtube, under it, you can find references and a summary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Tw1jd6lpI

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Master Geek

#445756 5-Mar-2011 11:28

hope it will never true

gzt

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#445759 5-Mar-2011 11:33

I do not find this video convincing at all.

Also, there are a large number of internet sites and book authors promoting very similar earthquake predictions based on some kind of coronal hole/magnetic field of the earth theory.

What is the basis of all these predictions? What is the actual theory used to make these predictions? How does this theory map coronal holes to positions on the earth?

I had a quick look but I cannot find anywhere an exposition.

You might also be interested in the the expanding earth theory:

"[...] engineering knowledge of scale effects on structures revealed a startling answer to the mystery of the dinosaurs’ massive size. Dinosaurs could never grow gigantic unless something dramatic had changed. Their bones, muscles and ligaments were too weak. There was one answer that solved the dinosaurs’ large scale - a reduced gravity. A Reduced Gravity Earth would reduce the weight of all life, so the scale of all life could increase. A reduced gravity explains the dinosaurs' large size"

How could generations of scientists have possibly missed these obvious facts?

Cululu

30 posts

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#445784 5-Mar-2011 13:54

Quote you
"How could generations of scientists have possibly missed these obvious facts?"

I hold a different opinion on this.
Our science only started a few hundred years ago, all those big names like Isaac newton, Galileo Galilei, they are known to us for barely 500 years. How can we be so
arrogant to think the world is what we think it is.

The scientific facts we believe today were not so believable just a few centuries ago.
Quantum Physics was once heterodoxy for classical mechanics but we made nuclear bombs to prove it's not.
The examples can go on..

gzt

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#445794 5-Mar-2011 14:54

In general I agree and I'm still curious about the basis of all these predictions and would be interested in looking at the theories which are at the root of them.

However, much of this kind of stuff turns out to be the result of making predictions, picking out correlation to events, and then ad-hoc discarding, minimising or ignoring any data which does not fit.

What was it about this video that you found very convincing?

Cululu

30 posts

Geek

#445838 5-Mar-2011 18:57

Well, The sun has a major roll on how our planet functions.
This video is about how solar activities affects the underground of earth. I give credit to it because it gathers data and make hypothesis from them(never use the word "prediction", it's a superstitious word).

Unlike Mr. Key Ring's stuff which is mostly made up by himself(TV3), this is based on facts.

gzt

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#445841 5-Mar-2011 19:13

Cululu: This video is about how solar activities affects the underground of earth.

I watched the whole thing, and it does not explain how solar activities affect the underground of the earth. There are pictures and graphs of sun activity (coronal holes, discharge, magnetic storms), and there are maps with indicators on them. The only thing connecting the two things are a voice over (and mouse pointer) stating things like "I would expect seismic activity here" and "based on this activity, these islands are now in play".

The solar activity graphs in this presentation supplied by established observatories can be regarded as facts, but what else is actually factual about this presentation?

Cululu

30 posts

Geek

#445842 5-Mar-2011 19:27

It didn't mention how the sun affect us in this video. Because, it's a known fact, there is no need for the video to show how they are connected.

For this part, there are 2 documentary TV series I would suggest to you. Both filmed by BBC.
One is called, "Wonders of the solar system"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1611787/
The other is called, "The sun"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477103/

And if you watched the movie "2012", yes, the story is fiction, but the theory is not a made up.

Oh, and for the record, I am now sitting in my house on the edge of cordoned area in ChCh.
And I plan to stay because I never believed earthquake can be predicted, but to say which area has a high possibility to quake is far from prediction.

And holy... a big aftershock just hit here while I type.

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Mooseboy

124 posts

Master Geek

#445843 5-Mar-2011 19:32

Cululu: Quote you
"How could generations of scientists have possibly missed these obvious facts?"

I hold a different opinion on this.
Our science only started a few hundred years ago, all those big names like Isaac newton, Galileo Galilei, they are known to us for barely 500 years. How can we be so
arrogant to think the world is what we think it is.

The scientific facts we believe today were not so believable just a few centuries ago.
Quantum Physics was once heterodoxy for classical mechanics but we made nuclear bombs to prove it's not.
The examples can go on..

Oh, so like Classical Greece and Rome never existed right? They never had any scientists or mathematicians back then right?

Cululu

30 posts

Geek

#445847 5-Mar-2011 19:41

Mooseboy:
Cululu: Quote you
"How could generations of scientists have possibly missed these obvious facts?"

I hold a different opinion on this.
Our science only started a few hundred years ago, all those big names like Isaac newton, Galileo Galilei, they are known to us for barely 500 years. How can we be so
arrogant to think the world is what we think it is.

The scientific facts we believe today were not so believable just a few centuries ago.
Quantum Physics was once heterodoxy for classical mechanics but we made nuclear bombs to prove it's not.
The examples can go on..

Oh, so like Classical Greece and Rome never existed right? They never had any scientists or mathematicians back then right?

You are right, physics starts at ancient Greece. But even that, even we have science ever since there was mankind walking on earth, then what? 4 million years compare to the age of earth and sun 4.6 billion years. I am not that confident.

Mooseboy

124 posts

Master Geek

#445852 5-Mar-2011 20:10

Cululu:
Mooseboy:
Cululu: Quote you
"How could generations of scientists have possibly missed these obvious facts?"

I hold a different opinion on this.
Our science only started a few hundred years ago, all those big names like Isaac newton, Galileo Galilei, they are known to us for barely 500 years. How can we be so
arrogant to think the world is what we think it is.

The scientific facts we believe today were not so believable just a few centuries ago.
Quantum Physics was once heterodoxy for classical mechanics but we made nuclear bombs to prove it's not.
The examples can go on..

Oh, so like Classical Greece and Rome never existed right? They never had any scientists or mathematicians back then right?

You are right, physics starts at ancient Greece. But even that, even we have science ever since there was mankind walking on earth, then what? 4 million years compare to the age of earth and sun 4.6 billion years. I am not that confident.

I'm not really seeing your point though, because there are things we don't know, we should believe psuedoscience?

Cululu

30 posts

Geek

#445856 5-Mar-2011 20:19

No one is saying what you should believe or what you shouldn't.
I was just saying my point, and I am not convincing you to share my opinion.
All I am saying is"I found this video convincing" as the topic says. But how you think about it is your problem.
If you are trying to argue, then you win. caz it's going to be pointless.

gzt

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#445861 5-Mar-2011 21:11

Cululu: It didn't mention how the sun affect us in this video. Because, it's a known fact, there is no need for the video to show how they are connected.

What exactly are the "known fact"s you refer to?

And if you watched the movie "2012", yes, the story is fiction, but the theory is not a made up.

I have not watched the movie. But, based on the description of the movie science premise from Wikipedia: "neutrinos from a massive solar flare are causing the temperature of the Earth's core to increase" - I would say that the theory is entirely made up.

Scientific American magazine: "If neutrinos behaved the way they are described in the film, then there wouldn't be much to film. Particles that can heat up the solid iron inner core by thousands of degrees should have cooked Earth's surface dry before Woody Harrelson gets the chance to steal all the scenes he's in". The computer magazine PC Authority takes a look at some of the other scientific theories in the movie.

Thanks for the links to the documentaries, I'll definitely look up "The Sun" (2009), sounds like a great doco. But, I do not think it will contain any support for a view that coronal holes contribute to earthquakes.

Oh, and for the record, I am now sitting in my house on the edge of cordoned area in ChCh.
And I plan to stay because I never believed earthquake can be predicted, but to say which area has a high possibility to quake is far from prediction.

To say which area has a high possibility to quake, yes I agree, this is not in itself prediction, but is an essential part of it, and certainly this is what is being claimed in the video.

The real science is interesting enough, there are projects using satellites to monitor various ground emissions and ionospheric disturbances which can (but not always) occur prior to earthquakes:

Monitoring of earth based electromagnetic stress emissions. (British/Russian)
INSAR Ground motion - INSAR.(NASA/USA)
Ionospheric disturbance - Demeter. (France)

The primary purpose of these projects is to add to the sum total of knowledge about earthquakes, but everyone hopes these projects will eventually lead to useful and specific warning and early warning systems.

And holy... a big aftershock just hit here while I type.

Stay safe dude, any choices you make which enhance your safety are good choices.

Linuxluver

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#445879 5-Mar-2011 22:39

gzt:
Cululu: This video is about how solar activities affects the underground of earth.

I watched the whole thing, and it does not explain how solar activities affect the underground of the earth. There are pictures and graphs of sun activity (coronal holes, discharge, magnetic storms), and there are maps with indicators on them. The only thing connecting the two things are a voice over (and mouse pointer) stating things like "I would expect seismic activity here" and "based on this activity, these islands are now in play".

The solar activity graphs in this presentation supplied by established observatories can be regarded as facts, but what else is actually factual about this presentation?

The video is very short on supporting theory for any mechanisms to account for the effects being predicted.

I did gather the solar wind changes in speed (650-ish kilometres / second to 350-ish kilometres / second)...and thus, notionally, some kind of pressure variable will be in play. The narrator suggests this drop in speed of the solar wind will contribute to a possible seismic event....perhaps in the same way ceasing blowing on a balloon will allow the surface of a balloon to rebound from the pressure of having been blown on. I can imagine such an effect would have *some* force....but would have no idea how to actually quantify it relative to anything that matters.

Another person of interest is Frank Glasby (who apparently died just a couple of months ago). He did some work that looked at solar cycles and tidal forces of planetary gravity and attempted to show a relationship between them and observed seismic activity on Earth. I have no idea if any of this work is credible or scientifically valid....but the ideas are interesting.

The tides of the Moon clearly do have an impact on the oceans and the atmosphere. What that means in seismic terms, I don't know. Presumably there is some effect...I can't see how there could not be an effect on water and air, but not on the rest of the planet....Ken Ring claims to have a good grasp of it....but again...I don't know. I draw no conclusions about effects of any tidal forces.

I did note that back in September when the Christchurch quake occurred, I had been out in the garden that evening looking at the planets with Google Sky Maps. I found that Jupiter and Uranus were almost perfectly aligned. In gravitational terms, their pull on the Earth would be combined....two of the largest planets in the solar system. It may well be that having the Moon in one place, pulling, the Sun in another....pulling...and every other planet also exerting some small force....maybe all this does have some "tidal" affect on the hot mucky nickel/iron ball known as Earth...with it's thin shell of cooler material, cracked like an egg shell, floating on the molten core.

Am I saying this caused anything? Nope. I'm just acknowledging these forces do exist...and I'd love to know in an empirical way how significant they might be in the life of our planet.

I don't know.

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tdgeek

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#445881 5-Mar-2011 22:44

Ive watched many solar system docos, including the sun, I cannot recall solar particles and earthquakes being linked. Or even mentioned. While this clips shows the solar events and the possible earthquake events, how does one cause the other?

Ken Rings theories carry more weight as at least the moon has a strong pull on the earth, although scientifically, not enough to create an earthquake, but they do admit, enough to possibly cause an earthquake if it is teetering on slipping at that time.

Again, what is the basis of solar articles potentially causing an earthquake?

tdgeek

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#445885 5-Mar-2011 22:47

Im in ChCh, after sending this we had an aftershock, bout 10-45pm. Spooky

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