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Topic # 88353 14-Aug-2011 14:13
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Hi folks. Need couple of heaters for 2 different POS counters at a business. They have bought fan heaters in the past ($60 ~$80 circa) and they seem to die every year or so. The one that's just over a  year old now shuts itself off every 2 minutes with slight smoke rising and turns itself on after 2 minutes. 

Anything decent out there? Does not have to be a fan heater and the max budget is less than $200 for one heater. The entrance doors are open wide and cannot be shut so heat pumps are no go. Only will need to run for 8 hours/day till the business is open for public.

Recommendations please with link if possible.

Cheers! 




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  Reply # 506369 14-Aug-2011 18:42
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Those ceiling panel heaters are not too bad if low enough, doubt you would get something that cheap though.

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  Reply # 506510 14-Aug-2011 22:42
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Bar heaters might be a good idea, they might be lower power and heat what they touch - so be careful with that. Otherwise heaters are all identically efficient, so buy a decent brand. Most are made for occasional consumer use, not all day every day, so I bet they burn out.

A heat pump costs a lot more up front, but less to run.




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  Reply # 506558 15-Aug-2011 08:34
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Slightly OT, but I've been wondering about this "all electric heaters are equally efficient" I keep hearing from different places. I understand the concept, but my grandmother-in-law has a 2000W halogen heater, and it seems to be chucking out more light than heat. I can understand that it's using all 2000W of energy it's drawing, but is this the same as outputting it all as heat? I would expect that a fair chunk of that energy is being converted to light, and so the actual heat output is less than the 2000W being consumed. Or have I just failed elementary physics?

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  Reply # 506576 15-Aug-2011 09:27
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Yep physics fail ;) All energy ends up as heat eventually (at least as far as I can recall from high school physics). Light turns to heat once it hits an object.




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  Reply # 506581 15-Aug-2011 09:32
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Lizard1977: Slightly OT, but I've been wondering about this "all electric heaters are equally efficient" I keep hearing from different places. I understand the concept, but my grandmother-in-law has a 2000W halogen heater, and it seems to be chucking out more light than heat. I can understand that it's using all 2000W of energy it's drawing, but is this the same as outputting it all as heat? I would expect that a fair chunk of that energy is being converted to light, and so the actual heat output is less than the 2000W being consumed. Or have I just failed elementary physics?

You are correct. For a long time now we have labeled devices based on their energy consumption (light bulbs is the obvious example) Realistically we should show 2 figures, one to show the power consumption and a second to show the appropriate output figure for the device (lumens or lux for lightbulbs). 
But of course all that simply adds confusion.

Back to original question:
Why can you not use a floor standing (or wall mounted) heatpump behind the counter???  As a Heatpump would be the most efficient solution??

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  Reply # 506584 15-Aug-2011 09:36
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Have you considered infra-red? The person under the lamp will be warm, and no heat is wasted to the open doors. Of course if the staff are moving around this won't work too well but your question seems to imply that they are standing still all day...

http://search.mitre10mega.co.nz/hardware/Infrared%20Heater

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  Reply # 506595 15-Aug-2011 09:51
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timmmay: Yep physics fail ;) All energy ends up as heat eventually (at least as far as I can recall from high school physics). Light turns to heat once it hits an object.


The problem there is that you're not considering how the heat is distributed. If the heater is heating up its own housing rather than objects around it then practically speaking it's not really perfectly efficient even though that might be true in theory.

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  Reply # 506596 15-Aug-2011 09:55
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alasta:
timmmay: Yep physics fail ;) All energy ends up as heat eventually (at least as far as I can recall from high school physics). Light turns to heat once it hits an object.


The problem there is that you're not considering how the heat is distributed. If the heater is heating up its own housing rather than objects around it then practically speaking it's not really perfectly efficient even though that might be true in theory.


There's only so much heat that can go into the heater itself before it catches fire, so I think you should ignore/discount that.

When you heat a house (which is different from this case) you're not just heating the air. You're heating the carpet, the TV, the insulation, the walls, etc, etc. That's why i'm not turning my heat pump off this week, I think it's easier to keep everything warm than to heat and cool it over and over.




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  Reply # 506612 15-Aug-2011 10:25
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McNulty: Have you considered infra-red? The person under the lamp will be warm, and no heat is wasted to the open doors. Of course if the staff are moving around this won't work too well but your question seems to imply that they are standing still all day...

http://search.mitre10mega.co.nz/hardware/Infrared%20Heater


Thanks. looks good. Would this consumer a lot more power compared to say a 1200W fan heater or about the same?   Are these reliable?

edit - it also states that it's rated for exterior use. is it safe to be used inside with carpter underneath it?




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  Reply # 506629 15-Aug-2011 10:41
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Don't quote me on this, but I don't think it is less efficient than a fan heater.

You will need to mount the heater in such a way that it won't burn anything i.e. high up. It will become very uncomfortable to work under before it gets anywhere near to igniting your carpets. That was just one example that I linked...definitely shop around for options.


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  Reply # 506640 15-Aug-2011 11:02
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1200W is 1200W. That's the power it consumes, and the heat it puts out. The difference between heaters is where that heat goes - out by radiation, up from an oil heater, or where you point it with a fan heater.




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  Reply # 506667 15-Aug-2011 11:35
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+1 for Panel heaters

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  Reply # 506712 15-Aug-2011 12:45
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Try asking at your nearest open air coffee shop.

Fuel Coffee in Wellington have some sort of overhead heater outside to keep the customers warm. I've seen them in various bars too. I doubt they are under $200 but I expect they would last much longer than your existing fan heater solution.

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  Reply # 506719 15-Aug-2011 12:54
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timmmay: 1200W is 1200W. That's the power it consumes, and the heat it puts out. The difference between heaters is where that heat goes - out by radiation, up from an oil heater, or where you point it with a fan heater.

Close enough but not quite right. Some of consumed power may be used for fan(s), be lost as light (colour of heating element changes etc), or be lost as the energy is transferred between mediums (element-oil-raditors)

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  Reply # 506725 15-Aug-2011 13:00
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oxnsox:
timmmay: 1200W is 1200W. That's the power it consumes, and the heat it puts out. The difference between heaters is where that heat goes - out by radiation, up from an oil heater, or where you point it with a fan heater.

Close enough but not quite right. Some of consumed power may be used for fan(s), be lost as light (colour of heating element changes etc), or be lost as the energy is transferred between mediums (element-oil-raditors)


Both air movement and light turn to heat. It's related to the principle of conservation of energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy





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