How do you get Chorus to do some work?... New building, fibre install

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › How do you get Chorus to do some work?... New building, fibre install

chevrolux

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#229087 7-Feb-2018 11:49

So we have one particular job underway for a customer, they are building a new premises.

Getting a fibre installed has been the biggest mission ever.

So we logged the job well before Christmas (through our wholesaler), scope was done. Went away saying a design was required due to it being MDU. We expected that, all good.

Customer then mucked around a bit as Chorus were requesting how many tenants would be in the complex, but customer is dividing as they go. We informed the customer they needed to commit to a number or it would just keep holding things up. Customer commits to a number and design gets underway.

Design was approved a couple of weeks ago now, and still no booking date for work to be done on-site.

It is now at the point where this install is holding up building work like pouring concrete and putting GIB on. We have said customer could install conduit internally but just needs to make sure it is a continuous duct with no 90* bends and draw wire. Customer is understandably nervous about doing that in case the techs decide the duct is no good.

So yes, just a bit of a rant - sorry, I get sick of seeing them on here too.

But how the hell do you get some urgency to Chorus about getting stuff happening?! Our provider is requesting daily updates, but not getting much back, just same old 'we are waiting for resources to become available'.

Edit: Literally as I hit go on this post, get an updated RFS of 14/3/18 - WHAAAT?! Just ridiculous, there is no copper in the complex. I'm getting the feeling Spark are going to get some business here with a 4G connection, especially now that public IP's are available.

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Lizard Networks

#1952872 7-Feb-2018 12:07

Wave some more cash towards them...

Maybe @ChorusNZ can have a look, I'd be trying to push an escalation path given your willing to pay for it anyway...

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#1952876 7-Feb-2018 12:23

When you say ' Well before Christmas ' what do you mean?

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chevrolux

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#1952899 7-Feb-2018 12:44

24th of November, to be specific.

MikeAqua

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#1952950 7-Feb-2018 14:29

This isn't just limited to wholesale. Friends recently dug tench along their driveway for various services. They are in a rural area, that will eventually get fibre. The house is ~300m from the road, so trenching is a significant undertaking.

Would chorus come and install fibre or ducting (they were prepared to pay)? "No".

Would they inspect ducting prior to trench fill to ensure it's suitable for running fibre? "No".

Would they review the specification for installing the ducting? "No" - except to say the ducting "must be green" and the distance was described as "marginal for blowing fibre" down the conduit.

Our friends took a punt and buried some green conduit complete with a couple of draw cables in the trench, with an appropriate separation from other services it. They risk the value of the conduit and cable, but the real risk is Chorus decide they don't like it, in which case our friends have to retrench. A significant expense for the distances involved.

Mike

hoane

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#1953179 7-Feb-2018 18:19

If there is internal partitioning of the building going on & they are laying duct out to the street sounds more like a new building than an MDU?

DM @ChorusNZ and ask them to look at it.

chevrolux

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#1953412 8-Feb-2018 07:25

hoane:
If there is internal partitioning of the building going on & they are laying duct out to the street sounds more like a new building than an MDU?

DM @ChorusNZ and ask them to look at it.

Yep brand new build. All we want is someone to come and throw in some internal cable, and get some cable down the duct out to the footpath and finish off the footpath side. Concrete needs to be poured!

mclean

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#1953543 8-Feb-2018 11:05

In our experience the process the OP describes is normal. The way Chorus works is a major impediment to property development in NZ. Without exception the early occupiers in our recent new developments have ended up on 4G connections. The worst thing is that when it eventually hits the fan Chorus will point the finger at everyone except themselves.

From experience, FWIW:

You need to get Chorus on board right at the early design stage. If you call them they'll tell you to place an order through a service provider, but that's wrong - you have to deal with them directly. It sounds like your building should go through their "Subdivisions Group" process, even if it isn't a subdivision.

Correct, Chorus' designers have to know how many tenancies there will be, where they are in the building and the unit numbers. Of course that's totally impractical for a commercial building developed as a shell. So you have to guess where the tenancies will be and then over-provide. They won't let you do the internal fibre runs as and when tenancies are established (as you do with other services).

Normally your own contractor does the internal provisioning using materials supplied by Chorus. If you get a suitably qualified contractor you shouldn't need to worry about whether it's installed correctly.

There's often a heap of stuff to be done off-site so don't expect to get service when the on-site stuff is finished. Also you often have to get easements in place before they will liven things up, which means surveyors to do a new title plan, lawyers, etc.

And lastly, lift, security and fire alarm comms connections don't work over fibre. Chorus won't give you a copper connection for these. Local security and alarm installers have moved to cellular, but some lift suppliers haven't caught up yet.

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Wheelbarrow01

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#1953590 8-Feb-2018 12:26

mclean:

And lastly, lift, security and fire alarm comms connections don't work over fibre. Chorus won't give you a copper connection for these. Local security and alarm installers have moved to cellular, but some lift suppliers haven't caught up yet.

Not correct - My team and I have completed dozens of lift phone and fire alarm line connections for Spark Digital customers over fibre. In each case, the building owners have had no issue getting Code Compliance Certificates issued by council upon successful installation. I suspect some buildings with existing lift phones or alarms may not be compatible, but new builds generally have lift and alarm infrastructure that is capable of running over fibre.

As an example, I'm working on the lift phone connections for the new Silverdale Mall complex in Auckland, and these will all be delivered over Spark's voice over fibre service.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

trig42

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#1953592 8-Feb-2018 12:33

It is taking a while at the moment it seems.

We have ordered a couple of Fibre connections for a couple of our sites for a proof of concept to hopefully move to an SD-WAN (instead of GlobalWAN from Telstra). We ordered before Christmas (likely in a brown-out - I think the order went through in the week before Christmas). The initial scope happened at one of the sites last Friday - though the Chorus subcontractors doing the scope initally had no idea it was even a business (kept ringing me asking if I would be 'home' at a certain time).

They did the scope, but I am not sure they even found the copper lead-in (muttered something about needing to find chorus plans for the building).

They gave an install date to me this morning of 23rd March. Not very fast at all.

The other site hasn't even been scoped yet.

mclean

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#1953669 8-Feb-2018 14:37

Wheelbarrow01: Not correct - My team and I have completed dozens of lift phone and fire alarm line connections for Spark Digital customers over fibre. In each case, the building owners have had no issue getting Code Compliance Certificates issued by council upon successful installation. I suspect some buildings with existing lift phones or alarms may not be compatible, but new builds generally have lift and alarm infrastructure that is capable of running over fibre.

As an example, I'm working on the lift phone connections for the new Silverdale Mall complex in Auckland, and these will all be delivered over Spark's voice over fibre service.

Well it's good to know it's technically possible. Contractors in Wellington just don't want to do it. Presumably you have UPS back-up on the in-premises fibre gear. Have you any assurance on the availability of the network in a power outage?

hio77

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#1953706 8-Feb-2018 15:59

mclean:

Presumably you have UPS back-up on the in-premises fibre gear. Have you any assurance on the availability of the network in a power outage?

for the most part (year one locations excluded) It's passive gear all the way to the exchange, where 99% of the time, there is battery + Generator there to survive a loss of power.

Is actually a slightly better power outage situation, provided your prepared, Just need to think about it differently.

In the past, one would keep a PSTN powered phone handy. Now days, it would be wise to be UPS backed on your IP gear to ensure things are all working.

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chevrolux

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#1954347 9-Feb-2018 13:43

The stupidity continues!!

So after making a bit of a fuss about the ECD of the 14/3, we now have a note saying that this is simply to complete build work outside the boundary. After this has been done they will come back for a second scope and will do whatever is required to get the fibre in. This could include cutting concrete which "of course will be reinstated".

How eff'ing thick can they get!?!?! Instead of just sending a dude to complete the 50mm conduit on the boundary side and get some microduct/fibre down it, they would rather come back and cut brand new concrete to finish the job. So the customer will end of with some sh1tty looking concrete right outside the front door of their brand new show room. And sorry if that is putting down the work of the techs, but frankly I have seen FAR more misses than hits when it comes to Chorus and concrete work!!

I would love to know the thought process to this approach. Like how does a business justify doing MORE WORK (and significantly more material costs) instead of working with the situation where ALL of the civil work would be taken care of for them.

atomeara

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#1954565 9-Feb-2018 20:58

chevrolux:

The stupidity continues!!

So after making a bit of a fuss about the ECD of the 14/3, we now have a note saying that this is simply to complete build work outside the boundary. After this has been done they will come back for a second scope and will do whatever is required to get the fibre in. This could include cutting concrete which "of course will be reinstated".

How eff'ing thick can they get!?!?! Instead of just sending a dude to complete the 50mm conduit on the boundary side and get some microduct/fibre down it, they would rather come back and cut brand new concrete to finish the job. So the customer will end of with some sh1tty looking concrete right outside the front door of their brand new show room. And sorry if that is putting down the work of the techs, but frankly I have seen FAR more misses than hits when it comes to Chorus and concrete work!!

I would love to know the thought process to this approach. Like how does a business justify doing MORE WORK (and significantly more material costs) instead of working with the situation where ALL of the civil work would be taken care of for them.

You can send it back for a redesign but that will add another couple of months to everything.

I tell most customers to allow 3-6 months for a ROW and MDU.

There process is slow but they are doing 100's or 1000's of these at the same time.

I have some that are nearly 24 months and still going.

chevrolux

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#1954568 9-Feb-2018 21:11

atomeara:
chevrolux:

The stupidity continues!!

So after making a bit of a fuss about the ECD of the 14/3, we now have a note saying that this is simply to complete build work outside the boundary. After this has been done they will come back for a second scope and will do whatever is required to get the fibre in. This could include cutting concrete which "of course will be reinstated".

How eff'ing thick can they get!?!?! Instead of just sending a dude to complete the 50mm conduit on the boundary side and get some microduct/fibre down it, they would rather come back and cut brand new concrete to finish the job. So the customer will end of with some sh1tty looking concrete right outside the front door of their brand new show room. And sorry if that is putting down the work of the techs, but frankly I have seen FAR more misses than hits when it comes to Chorus and concrete work!!

I would love to know the thought process to this approach. Like how does a business justify doing MORE WORK (and significantly more material costs) instead of working with the situation where ALL of the civil work would be taken care of for them.

You can send it back for a redesign but that will add another couple of months to everything.

I tell most customers to allow 3-6 months for a ROW and MDU.

There process is slow but they are doing 100's or 1000's of these at the same time.

I have some that are nearly 24 months and still going.

Isn't it ridiculous that three months is an OK time frame for this to happen though?!

What annoys me with this one I'm particular is we literally want them to just come and throw a cable in one tenancy, and then they can faff around on the external stuff as much as they like.
But nope, that is far too logical for a bureaucracy like Chorus.

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#1954571 9-Feb-2018 21:17

But you are not the only one that wants fibre installed

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