Copper Landline Providers

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#1358132 3-Aug-2015 19:38

toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: is it not your job to try and lead them in the direction of the newer better technology (the future)?

Sure, but if a customer is set on a particular outcome then all you can do is gently advise. In these instances it's clear what they want.
As soon as you guys find a way to feed voltage to an ONT from the CO to keep phones working in a power outage, you'll have my attention. Until then, I'm a big fan of POTS.

iirc the life of the battery in a road side cabinet is about 4 to 8 our depending on loading.

That means that if the power goes out at 1am the phone will be dead before your user wakes up anyway.

Can you explain why you want a POTS service running in a power outage?

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DonGould

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#1358134 3-Aug-2015 19:41

networkn:
DonGould: I really think we have to get grumpy at customers wanting to keep copper when fibre is there. They're costing everyone more money and not helping anyone.

What are their reasons?

How can we help you over come the sales objections?

"We" don't get grumpy at customers. If they want a copper line and are prepared to pay for it, and use a RSP that gives them that then that is THEIR choice as a consumer.

Yes some very fair views there...

Let me rephrase...

"It's time we got grumpy at you for now learning how to up sell your customers to fibre."

"It's also time we got grumpy at RSPs who continue to sell copper where there is fibre"

On the second note I have to give Snap a tick this week for their CSR doing a fibre query when I asked for ADSL and up selling me to a 100/50 service.

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toejam316

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#1358135 3-Aug-2015 19:41

DonGould:
toejam316:
networkn:
Jase2985: is it not your job to try and lead them in the direction of the newer better technology (the future)?

Sure, but if a customer is set on a particular outcome then all you can do is gently advise. In these instances it's clear what they want.
As soon as you guys find a way to feed voltage to an ONT from the CO to keep phones working in a power outage, you'll have my attention. Until then, I'm a big fan of POTS.

iirc the life of the battery in a road side cabinet is about 4 to 8 our depending on loading.

That means that if the power goes out at 1am the phone will be dead before your user wakes up anyway.

Can you explain why you want a POTS service running in a power outage?

Me personally? I don't care. But the majority seem to, and the majority aren't being told that no power no VoIP.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

DonGould

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#1358157 3-Aug-2015 20:01

toejam316:
Me personally? I don't care. But the majority seem to, and the majority aren't being told that no power no VoIP.

No power also means your cordless doesn't work too.

Realisticlly a mobile phone is going to last longer and be the thing your telco is going to focus on getter power to the other side of.

I think we really need to educate people that no power means get your mobile out.

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Lorenceo

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#1358170 3-Aug-2015 20:27

Pretty sure I've read the Chorus UFB cabinets are all passive, only containing fibre joints and splitters, and that the GPON signal is fed from the exchange which have UPS and backup generators. If you can keep your Chorus ONT and router powered your connection/VoIP should still work during a power outage. "Should" being the key term.
Can't say what the situation is for other LFCs re backup power, but I'd hazard a guess it's pretty similar.

Also keep in mind many people these days have cordless phones. Even if there's still voltage coming down the POTs line it's not going to be of much help when the cordless phone's base station has lost power.

Jase2985

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#1358203 3-Aug-2015 21:03

Sideface:
Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.

No ISPs provide them "free", for good economic reasons.
Cheap UPSs are unreliable rubbish - almost useless except perhaps for micro-outages with switch-on surges.
If you decide to get a UPS to support a power outage, you need one that will work for at least an hour, not 5 or 10 minutes.
That costs serious money - which 99.9% of consumers would not be prepared to pay.

/rant

you say that but ive been using dynamix ones for years in much more harsh environments than a house (a ship where the power is on and off about 4-5 times a week, where there could be 5-6+ brownouts a day, where the UPS is run flat at least once a month and have next to no issues with them). so more than adequate for powering a ONT for many many hours.

Battery's are also user replaceable if you are a little technical.

I wouldnt use it for a server with critical data but for an ONT for a once in 6 monthly power outage which lasts 2 hours its fine

DonGould

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#1358209 3-Aug-2015 21:10

Jase2985: I wouldnt use it for a server with critical data but for an ONT for a once in 6 monthly power outage which lasts 2 hours its fine

My experience is that many of those cheap UPS's only last a couple of hours even with just about no load on them. They power down when the battery gets to 50% as well.

I've also had them loose the magic black smoke as well. They're not a good consumer fit in my view.

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#1358220 3-Aug-2015 21:29

Jase2985: ... ive been using dynamix ones for years in much more harsh environments than a house (a ship where the power is on and off about 4-5 times a week, where there could be 5-6+ brownouts a day, where the UPS is run flat at least once a month and have next to no issues with them). so more than adequate for powering a ONT for many many hours. ...

What price range are these Dynamix UPS units in? - less than $100, or nearer the top of the Dynamix range?

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Jase2985

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#1358225 3-Aug-2015 21:40

sub $100 at cooperate rates. little bit more for retail customers.

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=UPSDNX1650

DonGould

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#1358228 3-Aug-2015 21:51

Jase2985: sub $100 at cooperate rates. little bit more for retail customers.

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=UPSDNX1650

What are the replacement batteries worth?
How much will PCGuru charge you to change them for you?
How long do the batteries last?

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#1358329 4-Aug-2015 08:42

batteries are under $25 each
anyone who can follow their nose with a spanner and screwdriver can change them in about 10 mins.
the batteries on the ship mentioned above were well over 4 years old and still going strong, we had them load tested and they ran for about 15 mins with a 250w load on them, which is above what the manufacture suggests they will last.

DonGould

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#1358346 4-Aug-2015 09:09

Jase2985: batteries are under $25 each
anyone who can follow their nose with a spanner and screwdriver can change them in about 10 mins.
the batteries on the ship mentioned above were well over 4 years old and still going strong, we had them load tested and they ran for about 15 mins with a 250w load on them, which is above what the manufacture suggests they will last.

So that's $50 every three years. (I think most folk would agree that 3 years is as long as you want to give a battery if you're talking disaster protection).

Remind me who we're suggesting needs these UPS backed systems? We're talking about protecting a VoIP ATA and a router right? I think the discussion was around older people who find managing a mobile a little more challenging? You're suggesting that we let people loose with a spanner in an unprotected 240v enclosure, who can't drive a mobile phone so need this sort of system to make sure a phone is up when the power is down?

I get the impression that what we're really talking about here is the protection of old technology to assist people from having to learn something new at the expense of the rest of us?

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Jase2985

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#1358359 4-Aug-2015 09:26

how do you get $50 every 3 years when they are $25 each and last well over 4 years? you dont change your car battery every 1.5 years do you?
at the 4 year mark they were still performing over what the manufacture suggested they should.

its not an unprotected 240v enclosure if you remove the power cord.

yes you can use a mobile but the discussion wasnt on mobiles it was on copper vs VoF/VOIP.

networkn

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#1358388 4-Aug-2015 09:51

Jase2985: there is none that provide them, spark offer them as an extra cost, or you could buy one yourself for a meager price of less than $100.

I never suggested they had to be free!

networkn

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#1358390 4-Aug-2015 09:53

DonGould:
networkn:
DonGould: I really think we have to get grumpy at customers wanting to keep copper when fibre is there. They're costing everyone more money and not helping anyone.

What are their reasons?

How can we help you over come the sales objections?

"We" don't get grumpy at customers. If they want a copper line and are prepared to pay for it, and use a RSP that gives them that then that is THEIR choice as a consumer.

Yes some very fair views there...

Let me rephrase...

"It's time we got grumpy at you for now learning how to up sell your customers to fibre."

"It's also time we got grumpy at RSPs who continue to sell copper where there is fibre"

On the second note I have to give Snap a tick this week for their CSR doing a fibre query when I asked for ADSL and up selling me to a 100/50 service.

TRY and get grumpy at me, and see what happens, sport.

You aren't adding anything to this conversation, if you can't answer the question I asked, then find another thread to comment on.

FTR, not that it's any of your business, but the customer CAN'T GET FIBRE, and even if he could, HE STILL WANTS POTS LINES!

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