Chorus estimate cost for install

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#2228622 1-May-2019 12:11

Instead of requesting GPON fibre, request P2P fibre. Then get a Bitstream service on that.

While I don't agree with Chorus' method of "pay us to build our network that we will profit off going forward" you can certainly understand from a business perspective why they would do this for a location like this.

So the option is, as you say, wait for it to happen. Or just get Inspire to build their fibre to you. Inspire have always been on the side of "get fibre wherever we can and make money off it later" as opposed to the Chorus method.

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#2228623 1-May-2019 12:16

Beccara:

They are expecting you to pay for all the bits needed to provide that service. Outside of UFB and UFB2 nobody is paying them to expand fiber services apart from paying clients. The price wont drop should there be a UFB3 but rather someone else paying the true cost of connecting you

Under a UFB install they have to also provide the supply line into someone's property upto 300(?) metres. While the UFB is heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, no doubt the install cost comes down an order of magnitude simply on the basis they have to so they can get the contract and the connections.

The $58,500 "estimate" was just for work out in the street.

And who builds a GPON network and multiple pits to run one connection? It's plainly obvious the quote is intended to cross-subside a later UFB rollout.

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#2228708 1-May-2019 13:01

MichaelNZ:

And who builds a GPON network and multiple pits to run one connection? It's plainly obvious the quote is intended to cross-subside a later UFB rollout.

And who builds out a network to a single customer without considering where else their investment adds up for?

50K doesnt pay for all the tech at all. it's a contribution....

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#2228710 1-May-2019 13:05

hio77:

And who builds out a network to a single customer without considering where else their investment adds up for?

50K doesnt pay for all the tech at all. it's a contribution....

Nobody asked them to build UFB in the area for the sake of providing one connection.

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#2228713 1-May-2019 13:20

Hi, do Inspire still not offer fibre connections via Scanpowers network, they have a fair bit of fibre in that area and before UFB provided most schools in the area with connections, might be worth a try.

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#2228714 1-May-2019 13:25

Quoted from @chorusnz

Chorusnz:

I can appreciate that’s a lot of money Michael, but there is more to the job than just hauling some Fibre. I’ve had a look over the high level design documents. The big ticket items are:

no supporting GPON in the exchange, so that needs to be built.
We have to lay a few hundred meters of new cable (the existing infrastructure is a backhaul cable, as others have pointed out, and is not suitable for standard connections).
Several new access pits need to be installed.
The cost also involves traffic management for working alongside a road and council consents for all this new infrastructure.

Basically from what I can see we are having to build everything from scratch as there is no supporting equipment in your area. ^Richard

MichaelNZ:

hio77:

And who builds out a network to a single customer without considering where else their investment adds up for?

50K doesnt pay for all the tech at all. it's a contribution....

Nobody asked them to build UFB in the area for the sake of providing one connection.

Sounds like you are asking them to build UFB just for you as there isn't any UFB infrastructure at your exchange.

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#2228728 1-May-2019 13:34

BarTender:

Sounds like you are asking them to build UFB just for you as there isn't any UFB infrastructure at your exchange.

I wasn't after that.

What I had in mind is a MM fibre plugged into a switch. Which is how Vector, Inspire, Citylink, and most other metro ethernet providers do it.

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#2228731 1-May-2019 13:43

MichaelNZ:

What I had in mind is a MM fibre plugged into a switch. Which is how Vector, Inspire, Citylink, and most other metro ethernet providers do it.

That isn't what you asked for though. NGA Fibre is GPON / UFB

Hmmmm

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#2228745 1-May-2019 14:25

cisconz:

MichaelNZ:

What I had in mind is a MM fibre plugged into a switch. Which is how Vector, Inspire, Citylink, and most other metro ethernet providers do it.

That isn't what you asked for though. NGA Fibre is GPON / UFB

And oddly enough there is a bit of a giveaway in the term Metro Fibre.

Chorus doesn't offer Metro switched ethernet. They would offer Dark Fibre (DFAS) but you would need to supply the optics and have something to connect to including an internet service behind that.

Spark offer Carrier Ethernet (CE) but that is also a point to point service so you would still need internet after the layer 2/3 service.

UFB which is a CFH regulated GPON product is BiDi where you only have a single fibre rather than a pair. And because it's PON you have an optical splitter to in the roadside pit.

So it's *completely* different technology from the backbone fibre running along the street.

Hence why train tracks vs road for cars is an accurate simile in my view. While they may get you from A-B they are completely different.

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#2228747 1-May-2019 14:30

Also, NGA stands for "Next Generation Access" which is designed as a direct replacement for copper based access, not Traditional P2P Fibre.

Hmmmm

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#2228748 1-May-2019 14:33

All this talk of alphabet soup terms is making my head spin.

I have still not had an substantial answer to the original and only point which is why a piece of fibre costs so much.

Far more involved installs are done on a regular basis for companies in areas where there is competition and these come in at a fraction of the price. Some are even no cost with a term contract.

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#2228749 1-May-2019 14:41

MichaelNZ:

BarTender:

Sounds like you are asking them to build UFB just for you as there isn't any UFB infrastructure at your exchange.

I wasn't after that.

What I had in mind is a MM fibre plugged into a switch. Which is how Vector, Inspire, Citylink, and most other metro ethernet providers do it.

I think you'll find it's SM fibre, not MM. MM might be used for in-building runs, from a basement switch, but not for anything remotely long haul.

But, as to the cost, I generally figure $100/m for trenching. Much more within a city. That's to open a trench, drop something in it, and close it up again. There isn't much difference in cost between a pair of fibres and 48—the cost is in the trench (including consents process, traffic control, make good, etc.)

So, they have that up-front cost to meet. They have to make that money back. If there are 100 customers served off the fibre, then the distributed cost goes down. If there are no other customers they can rely on, then they have to subsidise you heavily, or ask you to pay the full cost.

UFB is heavily subsidised by the Government. So, they can do a mass build (which reduces costs) and do other creative things to let you pay a monthly cost that you can actually afford. But, if they are not being subsidised, then any provider needs to figure out a way to recoup that cost.

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#2228752 1-May-2019 14:46

michaeln:

I think you'll find it's SM fibre, not MM. MM might be used for in-building runs, from a basement switch, but not for anything remotely long haul.

But, as to the cost, I generally figure $100/m for trenching. Much more within a city. That's to open a trench, drop something in it, and close it up again. There isn't much difference in cost between a pair of fibres and 48—the cost is in the trench (including consents process, traffic control, make good, etc.)

So, they have that up-front cost to meet. They have to make that money back. If there are 100 customers served off the fibre, then the distributed cost goes down. If there are no other customers they can rely on, then they have to subsidise you heavily, or ask you to pay the full cost.

UFB is heavily subsidised by the Government. So, they can do a mass build (which reduces costs) and do other creative things to let you pay a monthly cost that you can actually afford. But, if they are not being subsidised, then any provider needs to figure out a way to recoup that cost.

We are well within the distance for MM but SM would also be fine. Either way, I would expect them to have investigated the most cost effective option, not pluck a number out the air and add another zero on the end.

$100 a metre is fine.

They have managed to roll out GPON to other rural places with a similar population density to Norsewood, so it can be done.

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#2228754 1-May-2019 14:49

MichaelNZ:

All this talk of alphabet soup terms is making my head spin.

I have still not had an substantial answer to the original and only point which is why a piece of fibre costs so much.

Far more involved installs are done on a regular basis for companies in areas where there is competition and these come in at a fraction of the price. Some are even no cost with a term contract.

You have been answered, properly, and completely. The problem is you don't like the answer.

GPON which is the "cheap" fibre, isn't available in your area. There is (as has been pointed out to you by a number of people who are "in the know") more to your installation than just "a peice of fibre")

I can understand you being upset at the cost, but the reality of the situation is that your expectations are what the issue is, not the solution.

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#2228761 1-May-2019 14:53

@MichaelNZ It has already been repeated by a great many people here. You are missing the point of where the costs are coming from.

As I said, not only do we have to dig and install our network from the exchange to your property. We also have to install a whole bunch of additional equipment in the exchange to support a residential Fibre connection here.

Currently there are no plans to bring Fibre to Norsewood. As such any GPON equipment we install in the exchange will service just one property, yours. That is a huge investment from Chorus for little to no financial gain. ^Richard

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