Satellite plans for rural users losing copper in mobile blackspots other than Starlink?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Satellite plans for rural users losing copper in mobile blackspots other than Starlink?

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1571 posts

Uber Geek

#3372189 11-May-2025 13:07

snj:

I know there are a few talking about the Residential Lite (79/mo) option, but it looks like Starlink are cutting down on offering it. Only showing for me the Residential plan + a high-demand surchange (Rural West Auckland).

I live in a fibre supplied area (Hibiscus Coast just north of Auckland). Starlink want to also charge a $150 high demand surcharge. Smells like a money grab TBH.

robjg63

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#3372194 11-May-2025 14:29

I think trying to exclude Starlink as a solution only hurts yourself to be honest.

There is no real competition - I know several people that have gone with it - Its just works - and works very well.

I agree with your sentiments, but even if 'that person' lost 90% of his fortune, he is still not going to be broke or go away.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Scott3

3963 posts

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#3372311 11-May-2025 18:00

nzkc:

snj:

I know there are a few talking about the Residential Lite (79/mo) option, but it looks like Starlink are cutting down on offering it. Only showing for me the Residential plan + a high-demand surchange (Rural West Auckland).

I live in a fibre supplied area (Hibiscus Coast just north of Auckland). Starlink want to also charge a $150 high demand surcharge. Smells like a money grab TBH.

Well, they are a commercial business with a monopoly on LEO satellite internet at the moment (and a monopoly that will only last a few more years). Monopoly pricing should be expected.

On congested area's, starlink doesn't provide a nice map anymore, but when they did, the blocks were fairly large (roughly 25km diameter). It seems to surround major population centers, and availability of better internet seems to have little to do with it.

Maps changed a lot, but below is is an example from 2022:

Kinda makes sense that they charge a lot in area's where they are effectively full and don't want new signups.

Put in a rural location in the lower north island, and they will give free hardware if one signs up to the Residential plan for a year, and you have the option of the Residential lite plan if you prefer to pay for the hardware yourself. Makes senes they would focus these promos on area's with abundant capacity.

tim0001

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3372353 11-May-2025 22:51

ComCom are most of the way through their Copper Services Investigation . By the end of 2025, ComCom need to advise the Minister for Media and Communications whether Chorus's copper network outside fibre areas should still be regulated. ComCom's draft recommendation is that "copper regulation is no longer needed to promote competition because technologies like Fixed Wireless Access (FWA) and satellite are widely available and used by consumers."

Official submissions closed last week, but there is nothing to stop interested parties emailing ComCom with their concerns.

Gravity Internet are "in talks with new LEO providers who are looking to enter the market in the coming months/years". Perhaps ask them about the time-frames.

nztim

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TEAMnetwork

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#3372367 12-May-2025 08:49

I can understand the position where people are anti musk, And I also understand that for commercial or power users that Starlink might not be suitable (CG-NAT and limited MTU) but for the average home with an ATA adapter for a phone Starlink is fine

The question is when anything goes wrong with the setup, asking a 80 year old to log a support ticket through an app when there is no cell service will be a challenge

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

noroad

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#3372370 12-May-2025 09:06

Stu1:

As internet is a life line for communities why don’t we have our own satellite infrastructure or competition against a mad man . We have the technology to launch via rocket lab . Why not have state owned satellites

Because the cost is absolutely prohibitive and Rocket Lab's rockets are not capable of launching (yes they have bigger coming one day) a large enough geo-stationary satellite let alone the hundreds to make a LEO network. Think of it this way, you cold try and start a courier company with just your personal car instead of a nationwide fleet but it would be of no real use to anyone.

noroad

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#3372372 12-May-2025 09:15

PolicyGuy:

It's a pity that OneWeb doesn't have a residential / SOHO offer available in New Zealand, as they have a global LEO satellite network that ought to be able to provide a reasonable (say 150/30) speed service in NZ.
Unfortunately, their local agent - OneWeb don't seem to sell direct like Starlink does - seem uninterested "As an established enterprise and government supplier, Pivotel provides standard invoicing and terms, without the need to bill your services via credit card."

See https://www.pivotel.co.nz/networks/eutelsat-oneweb#products

Yea as someone qualified to install it, oneweb is business and military focused as they don't have the bandwidth for mass residential. Currently the oneweb receivers are well north of 10K. The oneweb network produces the best quality of service of any LEO option but its not going to be cost effective for anything short of super-yachts military and high end government requirements unfortunately.

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boosacnoodle

963 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3372375 12-May-2025 09:30

Stu1:

As internet is a life line for communities why don’t we have our own satellite infrastructure or competition against a mad man . We have the technology to launch via rocket lab . Why not have state owned satellites

This exists in Australia and is widely regarded as a terrible service. I share your sentiment around Musk and was initially skeptical of the claims of Starlink but it truly does work and it works well.

rhy7s

623 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3372376 12-May-2025 09:41

Thanks for the discussion, was good to have a bit more info on Kacific1. Starlink remains the best option in terms of cost, ease of setup and capability. Will have to see if they come around to holding their nose against Musk. Location is in Northland. FarmSide have said they couldn't service the location via their RBI offering and Gravity never got back to them after their phone conversation a while back. There are no visible neighbours (I had asked them if sharing a connection with a neighbour would be possible).

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3372383 12-May-2025 10:44

Northland - then also check if https://uber.nz/ services their area, but having tried rbi, uber & starlink - starlink wins

raytaylor

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#3373651 15-May-2025 20:51

nztim:

The question is when anything goes wrong with the setup, asking a 80 year old to log a support ticket through an app when there is no cell service will be a challenge

We even get 30 year olds switching to us from starlink because when it breaks, it takes a long time to get it fixed.
Your local WISP probably has a next business day repair policy for even basic residential plans.

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MichaelNZ

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Integrity Tech Solutions

#3386503 23-Jun-2025 22:35

Here are your options:

Wireless ISP or RCG cellular.
Starlink
Chorus community install fibre.

The last option is the best available but it is expensive and you have to go in with at least 2 neighbours. Don't expect any less then a 5-figure sum per property.

WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3386961 25-Jun-2025 12:25

MichaelNZ:

Here are your options:

Chorus community install fibre.

The last option is the best available but it is expensive and you have to go in with at least 2 neighbours. Don't expect any less then a 5-figure sum per property.

Don't pull the pin on spending $$$$ yet thou,

It looks like people are becoming supportive of Chorus' plan to push Fibre out further..

"Chorus said in a statement drafted in advance of the public release of the commission’s draft plan on Wednesday that the report endorsed extending the coverage of the UFB network from the current level of 87% of homes and businesses, to 95% of homes and businesses."

Infrastructure Commission supports '$2.5b' extension of UFB network, says Chorus
https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360734357/infrastructure-commission-supports-25b-extension-ufb-network-says-chorus

MichaelNZ

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#3386966 25-Jun-2025 12:40

wellygary:

Don't pull the pin on spending $$$$ yet thou,

Rock and hard place...

Do people spend the money and deal with the problem - especially in areas with marginal copper services - or wait around for something which may or may not happen?

Not a question specifically for you. But its one which I expect some will have asked.

Its also possible the community installs may have put an effective stop to the whole thing, because while an individual may have been prepared to pay for a "custom install", convincing their neighbours to also put in [typically 5 figure sums] may have put it into the realm of fantasy in all but the upmarket areas... which by some coincidence seem to have already been rolled out for free.

wellygary:

It looks like people are becoming supportive of Chorus' plan to push Fibre out further..

Chorus officially doesn't have a plan beyond mid 2025

Sorry to say, unless someone got their NGA (custom install) application in by the end of May (the cut off date for this service) their best - probably only - chance lies with convincing the government to throw another billion or so at it.

If this happens I will be among the first to celebrate.

WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3386975 25-Jun-2025 13:35

MichaelNZ:

Chorus officially doesn't have a plan beyond mid 2025

Sorry to say, unless someone got their NGA (custom install) application in by the end of May (the cut off date for this service) their best - probably only - chance lies with convincing the government to throw another billion or so at it.

If this happens I will be among the first to celebrate.

Possibly not "official", but there is obviously something going on behind the scenes if it can have things like a BCR attached to it

Fibre for 95% of Kiwis: Chorus proposal endorsed as national priority

in its assessment, the Infrastructure Commission awarded the proposal a green rating for value for money, highlighting its strong Benefit Cost Ratio (BCR) of 6.3 – significantly higher than many traditional infrastructure projects."

Aue says that with government backing, Chorus could have spades in the ground and begin connecting new people, homes and businesses to fibre within a few months.

“But it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Our proposal lends itself to staged delivery, allowing investment to be spread over time while delivering real benefits at each step.”

https://company.chorus.co.nz/media/releases/fibre-for-95-of-kiwis-chorus-proposal-endorsed-as-national-priority

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