Satellite plans for rural users losing copper in mobile blackspots other than Starlink?

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rhy7s

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#319585 10-May-2025 14:21

Does anyone with a bit of insight in this sector have recommendations for satellite providers other than Starlink? There have been a few pensioners in a bit of a bind around here lately. Copper services are being withdrawn and those that haven't availed themselves of the Remote Users Scheme are looking at some high costs to upgrade now that it is defunct. Switching to a VoIP provider is too much for some to understand. Those who are OK with dealing with Musk and dropping their landline have had the most straightforward transition but some are strongly opposed to Musk and are exploring other options. They might be the type to also have a problem with Bezos, but has anyone seen anything like an indicative time-frame for service being available from Kuiper?

Are there any services to avoid that are going to see their satellites retired or some-such issue that is going to be problematic?

One local lady was switched to Spark wireless broadband but the 50GB limit was confusing to them until a neighbour arranged extra data for them but it comes at a pretty punitive rate and is only valid for a month.

Another has had their WISP move their tower out of line of sight and has very limited cellphone coverage with an unreliable copper line that is due to be turned off later this year.

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#3372118 10-May-2025 20:10

Starlink is best option $79 unlimited plan is awesome and much faster than RBI

If you have an issue with Musk you need to get over it.... Starlink works!

cyril7

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#3372127 10-May-2025 21:42

Hi as someone who has provisioned numerous Starlink connections for both residential and commercial entities, I struggle to understand your reluctance.

I clearly understand your potential abration to Musk and his far right affiliations, however the service provided is in another realm to that provided by both WISP's and geo stationary satellite providers, so I respectfully recommend you overcome that bias.

Feel free to contact me directly if you want more assistance with a Starlink connection.

Regards Cyril

rhy7s

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#3372134 10-May-2025 22:36

I've also installed Starlink in residential, commercial and educational settings and have supported private and institutional geostationary satellite users (which are pretty woeful on the modern web). I would go with Starlink myself if I had no other option but these are people who were born during WW2 and have strong negative associations with Musk's positions. Personally I still use a WISP as even though their max speed is lower and the cost is higher, they hit it consistently, latency is lower and they are a local business. I also have found real world file download speeds on Starlink at a number of locations don't match speedtest.net and fast.com results (which seem to be prioritised), e.g. results below from a full speed Starlink connection over gigabit ethernet with no other traffic on the network.

Linux

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#3372142 11-May-2025 03:56

Then tell them to move to a fibre location

CYaBro

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#3372152 11-May-2025 09:26

It depends on the area you are as to what speeds you’ll get with Starlink, and it would be the same with WISPs and other satellite services with shared bandwidth.
I installed a Starlink dish up in whangarei last week, for someone just outside the northpower fibre area, no wisp coverage and terrible cell signal, and they were consistently getting 350 down, sometimes hitting 400, and about 30 up.
Just a bit of an improvement over their old ADSL connection. 😆

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Stu1

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#3372153 11-May-2025 10:11

As internet is a life line for communities why don’t we have our own satellite infrastructure or competition against a mad man . We have the technology to launch via rocket lab . Why not have state owned satellites

RunningMan

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#3372154 11-May-2025 10:18

Linux:

Then tell them to move to a fibre location

Not a terribly helpful reply. OP's (obviously elderly, and unlikely to move) clients clearly have their reasons as the OP has explained, and unless you ask in a place like GZ, you may not be aware of all the other alternatives that are available in a given location.

Presumably the likes of external high gain antennas have been considered in terms of cell signal?

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RunningMan

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#3372155 11-May-2025 10:20

Stu1:

As internet is a life line for communities why don’t we have our own satellite infrastructure or competition against a mad man . We have the technology to launch via rocket lab . Why not have state owned satellites

Cost would be the overwhelming reason I imagine. If there's not enough money to get RBI coverage to really isolated areas, then there's no way that satellite coverage would be affordable.

Bung

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#3372157 11-May-2025 10:26

What do mean "we"? Rocketlab is now mostly owned by American hedge funds. Peter Beck's 10% wouldn't translate into a discount. I have no idea how many satellites you'd need but I see that Starlink has to keep replacing theirs as they drop out of orbit.

quickymart

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#3372158 11-May-2025 10:27

rhy7s:

Another has had their WISP move their tower out of line of sight and has very limited cellphone coverage with an unreliable copper line that is due to be turned off later this year.

What area is this in? Must be quite rural!

Scott3

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#3372171 11-May-2025 11:00

Traditional (geostationary) satellite internet still exists.

For example (no endorsement): https://getgravity.nz/broadband-plans/everyday-satellite https://getgravity.nz/broadband-plans/unlimited-satellite

Should note that the Kacific1 satellite (while built by Boeing, and owned by Kacific), was launched by Space X, so it's existence is not completely Musk free.

But as others as mentioned, It really sucks, compared to Low earth orbit satellite internet. Currently Starlink is the only name in the latter game, but I would expect several competitors to spring up over the next 15 years. (every major military is going to need a network they control after seeing how Starlink treated a US allay who is at war in Europe, might as well claw back some of the cost via providing civilian internet).

The issue with Traditional (geostationary) satellite internet, is that the satellites are really far away. Leading to high (500 ms +) ping times, which can be very problematic (real time calling is basically not workable). This is inherent with the geostationary altitude and cannot be "fixed". Traditionally bandwidth was also poor.

Low orbit satellite internet can have ping in the 25 - 60 ms range which is completely game changing.

In short, if you want satellite internet good enough to make a video call on, it is starlink or nothing at the moment. And I view having viable internet as much more important than taking an ethical stance on a particular CEO.

Should also consider land based options:

Cellular: you mention a user with "very limited cellphone coverage" - Very limited coverage on a handheld phone is often enough to get a solid cellular broadband connection, with a big external antenna mounted on the roof or a pole.
WISP's (There are still a good number around).
Private Peer to Peer link. - If somebody has a line of sight to a friends house with good internet (ideally fiber), a private Peer to Peer radio link can be set up to share their internet. Obviously a few stars have to align for this to be workable.

Scott3

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#3372174 11-May-2025 11:16

Stu1:

As internet is a life line for communities why don’t we have our own satellite infrastructure or competition against a mad man . We have the technology to launch via rocket lab . Why not have state owned satellites

Commercial satellite internet is available from multiple providers. No pressing need for the state to get into that game.

And even if we wanted to, the key issue is:

a Single Geostationary satellite could be viably done, but is close to obsolete for internet purposes, now a low earth orbit network exists.
Standing up a Low earth orbit network is a huge undertaking (star link estimated it would be more than USD 10b in a 2018 ted talk). This would only really stack up if near global coverage is the aim, NZ is a bit small to be rolling out state funded global internet efforts. Also by the time we have stood up such a network, there will be a range of commercial operators, so our efforts would no longer be monopoly breaking.

CamH

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#3372175 11-May-2025 11:27

The options here in New Zealand for Satellite are Starlink or something running off the Kacific satellite (via Woi or GetGravity).

We trialed the Kacific satellite when it was first available here. Giant dish, incredibly slow speeds and terrible latency. We also had the most annoying weather drop outs in moderate rain.

Starlink on the other hand - well, it does what it says on the box. Considerably easier setup, fast, good latency and generally reliable.

Realistically, there is no competition. It's Starlink or Starlink. WISPs or mobile obviously if you can get them, but I do worry about the longevity of WISPs as customers slowly move out to satellite.

snj

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#3372183 11-May-2025 12:19

I know there are a few talking about the Residential Lite (79/mo) option, but it looks like Starlink are cutting down on offering it. Only showing for me the Residential plan + a high-demand surchange (Rural West Auckland).

PolicyGuy

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#3372188 11-May-2025 12:55

It's a pity that OneWeb doesn't have a residential / SOHO offer available in New Zealand, as they have a global LEO satellite network that ought to be able to provide a reasonable (say 150/30) speed service in NZ.
Unfortunately, their local agent - OneWeb don't seem to sell direct like Starlink does - seem uninterested "As an established enterprise and government supplier, Pivotel provides standard invoicing and terms, without the need to bill your services via credit card."

See https://www.pivotel.co.nz/networks/eutelsat-oneweb#products

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