UK to get 100mbs broadband.

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#396921 28-Oct-2010 16:49

I am amazed that so many utilities and so on in NZ appear to lack compulsory powers to do their jobs.

I used to work for a water company in the UK and when we needed to lay either water or sewage mains across farms, we just sent the farmer a Notice with a plan telling him what we were going to do and when. For all intents and purposes there was nothing he could do to stop us.

The same for Electricity, gas and telecom pretty much. Also they do not need planning consent (the equivalent of Resource Consent) because their activities have 'deemed consent' because they are Statutory Undertakers. (That is they undertake statutory roles and duties, not bury people!)

I think we need a bit of that sort of thing here, personally. Stubborn farmers and doltish councillors ought not to be able to frustrate the progress of society.

NonprayingMantis

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#396931 28-Oct-2010 17:11

I agree that the resource consent requirements as they are create a major hurdle for investment in NZ infrastrucure. (although I don't think it would be a good idea to go as far as giving the utilities carte blanche to do what they want)

Think how long cabinitsaion is taking Telecom - every single cabinet requires resource consent.
Think how much expense and time resource consent requirements added to the building of Vodaqfone's mobile network, Telecom's mobile networks, and 2Degrees mobile network. thousands of cellcites each requiring individual resource consent.

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#396937 28-Oct-2010 17:29

Maybe we should look overseas and see how they deal with it.

I doubt we are the only country facing the problem. Others seem to arrive at better solutions much faster!

langers

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#396983 28-Oct-2010 19:32

Just look at Transmission Gully (or not to be more accurate) 60 years and counting

langers1972

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#396986 28-Oct-2010 19:34

Blimey, I must have another account. Useful for talking to myself and agreeing wholeheartedly with what I am saying

cyril7

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#397005 28-Oct-2010 20:24

I agree that the resource consent requirements as they are create a major hurdle for investment in NZ infrastrucure. (although I don't think it would be a good idea to go as far as giving the utilities carte blanche to do what they want)

Think how long cabinitsaion is taking Telecom - every single cabinet requires resource consent.
Think how much expense and time resource consent requirements added to the building of Vodaqfone's mobile network, Telecom's mobile networks, and 2Degrees mobile network. thousands of cellcites each requiring individual resource consent.

http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/rma/nes-telecommunication-facilities-user-guide/index.html

Essentially a registered Telco provider no longer has to seek concent under the RMA as per the above link.

Much of this came about by the fact that the Guvment put Telecom on notice to provide all sorts of new services (10Mb/s to 80% of populous on exchanges with 500line or more etc etc) and Telecom had to undergo operational seperation yadayada. But for Telecom to provide the prescribed services within the timeframes layed out by Guvment they would have to poke a hole in the RMA to let it happen, the above link tells what.

Cheers
Cyril

ockel

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#397150 29-Oct-2010 07:51

cyril7:

I agree that the resource consent requirements as they are create a major hurdle for investment in NZ infrastrucure. (although I don't think it would be a good idea to go as far as giving the utilities carte blanche to do what they want)

Think how long cabinitsaion is taking Telecom - every single cabinet requires resource consent.
Think how much expense and time resource consent requirements added to the building of Vodaqfone's mobile network, Telecom's mobile networks, and 2Degrees mobile network. thousands of cellcites each requiring individual resource consent.

http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/rma/nes-telecommunication-facilities-user-guide/index.html

Essentially a registered Telco provider no longer has to seek concent under the RMA as per the above link.

Much of this came about by the fact that the Guvment put Telecom on notice to provide all sorts of new services (10Mb/s to 80% of populous on exchanges with 500line or more etc etc) and Telecom had to undergo operational seperation yadayada. But for Telecom to provide the prescribed services within the timeframes layed out by Guvment they would have to poke a hole in the RMA to let it happen, the above link tells what.

Cheers
Cyril

Works for roadside cabinets, adding to existing mast structures and towers but doesnt necessarily give carte blanche to another operator. Essentially the NES would allow Vector to erect cables on overhead power poles and any other party that "rents" access to those structures but wouldnt allow new poles to be erected to hang cables.

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#397170 29-Oct-2010 09:08

Here's a follow up UK story about the rural/urban divide for broadband there:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/broadband/8090463/Broadband-is-the-gulf-widening.html

Geektastic

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#397171 29-Oct-2010 09:09

langers1972: Blimey, I must have another account. Useful for talking to myself and agreeing wholeheartedly with what I am saying

Always handy!!

Ragnor

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#397336 29-Oct-2010 13:50

Well you have to say it totally didn't make sense for Telstraclear to be trying to add cable to overhead lines and poles at the same time as Vector was removing poles and putting everything underground.

What leaves me wondering is why Telstraclear couldn't work with Vector to lay cable in ducts underground at the same time as Vector were putting power underground....

I guess it came down to Telstraclear not being willing to invest the amount needed to do this?

I wonder how different things may have turned out if the clear management buy out of the company had succeed vs Telstra.

ockel

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#397371 29-Oct-2010 14:35

Ragnor: Well you have to say it totally didn't make sense for Telstraclear to be trying to add cable to overhead lines and poles at the same time as Vector was removing poles and putting everything underground.

What leaves me wondering is why Telstraclear couldn't work with Vector to lay cable in ducts underground at the same time as Vector were putting power underground....

I guess it came down to Telstraclear not being willing to invest the amount needed to do this?

I wonder how different things may have turned out if the clear management buy out of the company had succeed vs Telstra.

You mean why Telstraclear couldnt reach an agreement on renting the duct from Vector? Its not whether Telstraclear would be willing to invest as the cost of cable in ducts is a relatively small investment.

Think of it in terms of the UCLL price - $19.84 per month per user (urban) to rent the copper already in the ground from Telecom. And it aint the cost of the copper....... its the cost of sticking it in the ground amortised over the life of the asset. Same theory for SLU - renting the copper between the cabinet and the user.

I hear rumours that Vector charge on a cost plus basis and are not the cheapest in the market for backhaul so it wouldnt be any surprise to guess that the price Vector wants for duct access may not be that attractive for a 3rd party........ especially if its not a regulated price. Imagine what Telecom could choose to charge for UCLL if not dictated by the Commerce Commission.

And wonder why when you walk around the CBD's you find that Clear, then Telecom, then Vector, then Citylink all dug up the ground to put their own fibre in the streets. Surely there could have been communication to reduce the duplication of civil works? Its been going on since year dot and it'll be going on forever more.

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graemeh

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#397418 29-Oct-2010 15:58

ockel: And wonder why when you walk around the CBD's you find that Clear, then Telecom, then Vector, then Citylink all dug up the ground to put their own fibre in the streets. Surely there could have been communication to reduce the duplication of civil works? Its been going on since year dot and it'll be going on forever more.

The companies and the councils do try but it's actually harder than it sounds. Most companies have enough trouble coordinating work internally!

ojala

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#397504 29-Oct-2010 20:23

I had to double check the dates on this thread.. DOCSIS 3.0 was released in 2006.

Here in our little country they started the EuroDOCSIS 3.0 trials back in 2007 and the service has been out since 2008 with both the bigger (300,000+ homes) and smaller cable tv operators. 200/10 service has been available for about a year now. The sales have beat all the estimates.

UPC Netherlands, up and running up to 120/10 since 2008. (90% of households in the Netherlands have cable TV)

Numericable France, up and running 100 Mbit/s since 2009. In just a few months they reported 30% sales increase.

Cablecom in Switzerland and UPC Austria, 100+ since 2009. They landscape in Austria and Switzerland is pretty challenging.

Why wait years, or benchmark against the conservative british market, when the world is full of success stories? The business is there to take, just imagine how TelstraClear's 100 Mbit/s internet access would have looked in the NZ internet market two years ago, when similar services were being rolled out in continental Europe. Small country means easy, not difficult or impossible.

PS. Love (not) living 500 metres from both the FTTH and cable TV, stuck with ADSL2+ since 2004..

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#397553 29-Oct-2010 21:46

graemeh:
ockel: And wonder why when you walk around the CBD's you find that Clear, then Telecom, then Vector, then Citylink all dug up the ground to put their own fibre in the streets. Surely there could have been communication to reduce the duplication of civil works? Its been going on since year dot and it'll be going on forever more.

The companies and the councils do try but it's actually harder than it sounds. Most companies have enough trouble coordinating work internally!

It's a world wide problem I think.

In an effort to combat it in Britain, the local authority can fine companies that keep digging up the same bit of road or over-run their notified dates, but that has not eliminated the issue last time I looked.

Screeb

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#397750 30-Oct-2010 15:25

ojala: I had to double check the dates on this thread.. DOCSIS 3.0 was released in 2006.

Here in our little country they started the EuroDOCSIS 3.0 trials back in 2007 and the service has been out since 2008 with both the bigger (300,000+ homes) and smaller cable tv operators. 200/10 service has been available for about a year now. The sales have beat all the estimates.

UPC Netherlands, up and running up to 120/10 since 2008. (90% of households in the Netherlands have cable TV)

Numericable France, up and running 100 Mbit/s since 2009. In just a few months they reported 30% sales increase.

Cablecom in Switzerland and UPC Austria, 100+ since 2009. They landscape in Austria and Switzerland is pretty challenging.

Why wait years, or benchmark against the conservative british market, when the world is full of success stories? The business is there to take, just imagine how TelstraClear's 100 Mbit/s internet access would have looked in the NZ internet market two years ago, when similar services were being rolled out in continental Europe. Small country means easy, not difficult or impossible.

PS. Love (not) living 500 metres from both the FTTH and cable TV, stuck with ADSL2+ since 2004..

TelstraClear under Freeth likes to pretend it's in the same position as Telstra (for its cable network). It doesn't of course, but it still exists in a weird "one-way competition" bubble. TelstraClear only has to be marginally better than the comparable alternatives (ie Telecom based DSL), but Telecom/other ISPs won't compete against TelstraClear's cable network. Telecom, because they don't want to get into regional pricing/feature wars - and the other ISPs because getting into a price/feature war with a larger ISP would kill them. Maybe they're also scared that TelstraClear would have the backing of Telstra in order to out-compete anyone that dares try (I doubt that would actually happen though). The end result is TelstraClear being incredibly slow to actually achieve anything (hang around the TelstraClear forum here for an idea).

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